A Personal View
Mar 30, 2017, 10:06 am
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Is it really reasonable to demand of every poster who says that they like some particular change that they also enumerate all the negatives in order to demonstrate that they aren't engaging in stealth advertising?
Should we also likewise demand of every critic of a change that they acknowledge the other side of the equation? Or are critics allowed free rein to vent without balance?
Mar 30, 2017, 10:20 am
#47
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,222
I enjoy the lounge although Galleries food is very average indeed.
The seat is fine....entertainment adequate....food and in particular wines are good on the plane and the club kitchen is sufficient for a mid flight snack.
Crew I am happy to report have all been excellent on my last half dozen flights as well.
In all I have nothing to complain about given the likes of the ME3 who are the competition are all charging at least £500 more on my route with a stopover.
I do smile at the new CE offering however....I just don't see value in that quite honestly.
As to fan boys on forums well it happens everywhere....best just ignored on both extremes. This forum is blessed with some fantastically helpful and knowledgable posters and that is the reason I stick around.
Mar 30, 2017, 10:20 am
#48
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
Someone saying that they like a particular change is not "presenting" anything, it's stating their opinion. And you'd expect that someone who states such an opinion is going to point to the things that they find positive.
Is it really reasonable to demand of every poster who says that they like some particular change that they also enumerate all the negatives in order to demonstrate that they aren't engaging in stealth advertising?
Should we also likewise demand of every critic of a change that they acknowledge the other side of the equation? Or are critics allowed free rein to vent without balance?
Is it really reasonable to demand of every poster who says that they like some particular change that they also enumerate all the negatives in order to demonstrate that they aren't engaging in stealth advertising?
Should we also likewise demand of every critic of a change that they acknowledge the other side of the equation? Or are critics allowed free rein to vent without balance?
Mar 30, 2017, 10:32 am
#49
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta Georgia
Programs: Sky Miles
Posts: 74
Vectismanpaul, I am really happy to see your post. My husband and I are leaving Atlanta for a cruise starting in Amsterdam tomorrow to celebrate my 70th birthday on April 1. We are flying BA Business Class, and I've been mortified at the horrible service, food, FA's, etc. I've been reading about on FT.
I am so glad that your opinion (and many others answering your post) is not totally negative. I've flown quite a few miles when I worked and much since retirement for leisure and occasionally have a disappointment in food, service, delays, etc. I just chalk it up to bad timing for a chosen flight.
Thanks again for your very balanced post.
I am so glad that your opinion (and many others answering your post) is not totally negative. I've flown quite a few miles when I worked and much since retirement for leisure and occasionally have a disappointment in food, service, delays, etc. I just chalk it up to bad timing for a chosen flight.
Thanks again for your very balanced post.
Mar 30, 2017, 11:52 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IC Ambassador, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 3,166
For a change this is a salutary and balanced thread - the very essence of FT.
I too have felt that the forum recently has been playing the man rather than the ball and the degree of negativity about BA and personal slights of anyone who dissents has got out of hand.
OT but Brexit and the anomnity of the internet seem to have legitimised behaviour many people would find unacceptable.
To my mind the forum serves two purposes - it is an information resource for those who need its considerable expertise and a discussion forum to debate BA.
I think the informative part still works fine. Discussion however to my mind is not name calling, sarcasm, ad hominem attacks or constant repetition of the same point. A decent discussion will contain various views and may be influential and persuasive to the extent that one changes or refines ones initial sentiments.
Anyone who has read my posts knows I am not adverse to taking a line contrary to the views of many and arguing my point. Often, but not always, it is pro-BA. The simple reason for that is most of the time I am happy with the BA product. I am not saying it is not different to before or some parts of it are worse than before or bettered by competitors. However, on balance it works for me.
For others it may not work at all or there may be significant changes/failings. Debate these in a sensible, informed and reasonable way. In my world many people have opinions that differ from mine and they are entitled to them.
My mantra is to be critical of arguments, never people and always say what you honestly believe. I am sure the forum will revert to its old self, but at the moment some of the criticism for criticism's sake threads are becoming tiresome. I wouldn't include myself in this, but if this forum loses its knowledgeable experts, then those who want to fly MAN to TOM using all OW carriers with a stopover in ARN will find it lesser place.
I commend the OP for a brave but excellent post.
I too have felt that the forum recently has been playing the man rather than the ball and the degree of negativity about BA and personal slights of anyone who dissents has got out of hand.
OT but Brexit and the anomnity of the internet seem to have legitimised behaviour many people would find unacceptable.
To my mind the forum serves two purposes - it is an information resource for those who need its considerable expertise and a discussion forum to debate BA.
I think the informative part still works fine. Discussion however to my mind is not name calling, sarcasm, ad hominem attacks or constant repetition of the same point. A decent discussion will contain various views and may be influential and persuasive to the extent that one changes or refines ones initial sentiments.
Anyone who has read my posts knows I am not adverse to taking a line contrary to the views of many and arguing my point. Often, but not always, it is pro-BA. The simple reason for that is most of the time I am happy with the BA product. I am not saying it is not different to before or some parts of it are worse than before or bettered by competitors. However, on balance it works for me.
For others it may not work at all or there may be significant changes/failings. Debate these in a sensible, informed and reasonable way. In my world many people have opinions that differ from mine and they are entitled to them.
My mantra is to be critical of arguments, never people and always say what you honestly believe. I am sure the forum will revert to its old self, but at the moment some of the criticism for criticism's sake threads are becoming tiresome. I wouldn't include myself in this, but if this forum loses its knowledgeable experts, then those who want to fly MAN to TOM using all OW carriers with a stopover in ARN will find it lesser place.
I commend the OP for a brave but excellent post.
Mar 30, 2017, 12:03 pm
#51
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chelsea
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,227
I think this Forum performs best in being informative and imaginative about the BAEC and in the wide and, at times, delightfully idiosyncractic approch that certain members take in providing all kinds of useful travelling information (T5 tunnel walkways, airport guides, new route reviews, catering overviews, crew insight et al). To me this is all invaluable and is why I return. And I thank those who work so hard to sustain that ethos.
It performs least well, in my view, when it comes to discussing the merits of BA v other airlines or BA now compared to as was. Given the model that BA appear to be adopting it's probably inevitable that passions are aroused, but the outcome increasingly resemembles that of an echo chamber. That said, it's noteworthy that certain long-standing posters who have over the years provided fair minded commentary only now post infrequently and more often than not negatively. To me at least that's instructive.
It performs least well, in my view, when it comes to discussing the merits of BA v other airlines or BA now compared to as was. Given the model that BA appear to be adopting it's probably inevitable that passions are aroused, but the outcome increasingly resemembles that of an echo chamber. That said, it's noteworthy that certain long-standing posters who have over the years provided fair minded commentary only now post infrequently and more often than not negatively. To me at least that's instructive.
Mar 30, 2017, 12:04 pm
#52
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: none
Posts: 1,669
I rarely comment on these forums and when I do it is more to do with fleet and operational matters out of personal interest. However I do read the threads frequently and try to take an objective view.
However recently some threads and comments on here have disturbed me in terms of their almost vitriolic nature and personal insults. Some posters seem to hate everything about BA yet continue to post here regularly telling everyone how awful it all is. Surely they just need to use other carriers and maybe comment on their forums?
Some comments and interpretation of the facts equal the Daily Mail in accuracy and hyperbole. In some recent posts elements of racism are evident. Is this acceptable in a forum that should exist mainly to help members of the BAEC get the most out of their membership? Has the forum become too much about personal opinion rather than facts?
I realise most of the comments are from people who tend to fly mainly in the premium classes and have certain expectations. Are these really not being met so much of the time? Or are these expectations unrealistic in the 21st Century. Let us be honest if the real value of fares had been maintained in all travel classes air travel would still be a form of transport relatively few people could afford. Is this really what concerns some of these posters? Surely people are not being elitist!
When I fly BA I continue to see full aircraft in most classes, receive similar friendly treatment from crew and yes actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET in Europe. Most passengers seem to be ok about what they experience. The airline is profitable too. Am I missing something here?
As I said just a personal view.
However recently some threads and comments on here have disturbed me in terms of their almost vitriolic nature and personal insults. Some posters seem to hate everything about BA yet continue to post here regularly telling everyone how awful it all is. Surely they just need to use other carriers and maybe comment on their forums?
Some comments and interpretation of the facts equal the Daily Mail in accuracy and hyperbole. In some recent posts elements of racism are evident. Is this acceptable in a forum that should exist mainly to help members of the BAEC get the most out of their membership? Has the forum become too much about personal opinion rather than facts?
I realise most of the comments are from people who tend to fly mainly in the premium classes and have certain expectations. Are these really not being met so much of the time? Or are these expectations unrealistic in the 21st Century. Let us be honest if the real value of fares had been maintained in all travel classes air travel would still be a form of transport relatively few people could afford. Is this really what concerns some of these posters? Surely people are not being elitist!
When I fly BA I continue to see full aircraft in most classes, receive similar friendly treatment from crew and yes actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET in Europe. Most passengers seem to be ok about what they experience. The airline is profitable too. Am I missing something here?
As I said just a personal view.
OP, you understand that this is a social media site/forum, don't you? Posters do not have to have any facts or accuracy in order to respond. Read at your own risk.
Mar 30, 2017, 1:17 pm
#53
Moderator: Qatar Airways
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LHR/NCE/MIA
Programs: BAEC GfL & GGL, SQ Gold, Amex Centurion, Mucci des Chevaliers des Bons Mots et Qui Savent Moucher
Posts: 8,950
A very well balanced view from the OP, and one I agree wholeheartedly with.
There is a sense of irony however, that certain posts within this thread (even after the Mod warning) subscribe to the sort of thing the OP mentions.
M
There is a sense of irony however, that certain posts within this thread (even after the Mod warning) subscribe to the sort of thing the OP mentions.
M
Mar 30, 2017, 1:44 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: No more shiny cards -- former LH SEN, SPG Platinum, Flying Blue Platinum, BA Silver
Posts: 704
I rarely comment on these forums and when I do it is more to do with fleet and operational matters out of personal interest. However I do read the threads frequently and try to take an objective view.
However recently some threads and comments on here have disturbed me in terms of their almost vitriolic nature and personal insults. Some posters seem to hate everything about BA yet continue to post here regularly telling everyone how awful it all is. Surely they just need to use other carriers and maybe comment on their forums?
Some comments and interpretation of the facts equal the Daily Mail in accuracy and hyperbole. In some recent posts elements of racism are evident. Is this acceptable in a forum that should exist mainly to help members of the BAEC get the most out of their membership? Has the forum become too much about personal opinion rather than facts?
I realise most of the comments are from people who tend to fly mainly in the premium classes and have certain expectations. Are these really not being met so much of the time? Or are these expectations unrealistic in the 21st Century. Let us be honest if the real value of fares had been maintained in all travel classes air travel would still be a form of transport relatively few people could afford. Is this really what concerns some of these posters? Surely people are not being elitist!
When I fly BA I continue to see full aircraft in most classes, receive similar friendly treatment from crew and yes actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET in Europe. Most passengers seem to be ok about what they experience. The airline is profitable too. Am I missing something here?
As I said just a personal view.
However recently some threads and comments on here have disturbed me in terms of their almost vitriolic nature and personal insults. Some posters seem to hate everything about BA yet continue to post here regularly telling everyone how awful it all is. Surely they just need to use other carriers and maybe comment on their forums?
Some comments and interpretation of the facts equal the Daily Mail in accuracy and hyperbole. In some recent posts elements of racism are evident. Is this acceptable in a forum that should exist mainly to help members of the BAEC get the most out of their membership? Has the forum become too much about personal opinion rather than facts?
I realise most of the comments are from people who tend to fly mainly in the premium classes and have certain expectations. Are these really not being met so much of the time? Or are these expectations unrealistic in the 21st Century. Let us be honest if the real value of fares had been maintained in all travel classes air travel would still be a form of transport relatively few people could afford. Is this really what concerns some of these posters? Surely people are not being elitist!
When I fly BA I continue to see full aircraft in most classes, receive similar friendly treatment from crew and yes actually like the greater choice of what I want to eat or drink when flying ET in Europe. Most passengers seem to be ok about what they experience. The airline is profitable too. Am I missing something here?
As I said just a personal view.
I'm still in the "I like BA camp" and I spend a lot of time flying different carriers.
Mar 30, 2017, 1:50 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Meh
Posts: 2,598
Good post vectismanpaul. ^
How can comment on here reflect reality when you have hundreds of posts discussing the pros and cons of a passageway inside an airport the majority of the flying public in T5 will never get to see never mind use. Even the decor has attracted some attention.
There are countless other threads on this forum discussing topics most air travellers won't even notice or care about.
How can comment on here reflect reality when you have hundreds of posts discussing the pros and cons of a passageway inside an airport the majority of the flying public in T5 will never get to see never mind use. Even the decor has attracted some attention.
There are countless other threads on this forum discussing topics most air travellers won't even notice or care about.
Mar 30, 2017, 1:56 pm
#56
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,522
Not true unfortunately. Most do not tend to fly in premium and many are likely not flying that much at all, but for some reason experts on all things BA. This isn't unique to FT BAEC forum by the way. We see this all over the internet.
Good post OP @:-)
Mar 30, 2017, 2:16 pm
#57
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: QF
Posts: 128
I am not a regualr poster but I have been a lurker and occasional commenter on the forums for a while.
From my perspective, BA was THE market leading airline not too many years ago and has been on a decline to what I would now see as an average airline. There are things they do well, great staff as most acknowledge and they are pretty consistent.
Compensation for when things go wrong was quite (overly) generous when things went wrong, and is now less so, in some cases to the other extreme (no seat cushion, inoperative seat in F as examples)
The change im dyamic of the airline will mean people have strong views, and the fact that this is an anonymous internet forum means that versions of events, both positive and negative are sometimes embelished to enhance the story.
What doesn't change is the value this forum provides as a resource, the input of the likes of CWS who seems to be in the air more than he is on the ground allows less regular travellers to access information they couldn't get anywhere else.
We won't always agree, we won't always like an opinion that differs from our own, but we all have our own perspectives - but there is no need for things to get personal or insulting.
Thank you all for making this a good online community.
From my perspective, BA was THE market leading airline not too many years ago and has been on a decline to what I would now see as an average airline. There are things they do well, great staff as most acknowledge and they are pretty consistent.
Compensation for when things go wrong was quite (overly) generous when things went wrong, and is now less so, in some cases to the other extreme (no seat cushion, inoperative seat in F as examples)
The change im dyamic of the airline will mean people have strong views, and the fact that this is an anonymous internet forum means that versions of events, both positive and negative are sometimes embelished to enhance the story.
What doesn't change is the value this forum provides as a resource, the input of the likes of CWS who seems to be in the air more than he is on the ground allows less regular travellers to access information they couldn't get anywhere else.
We won't always agree, we won't always like an opinion that differs from our own, but we all have our own perspectives - but there is no need for things to get personal or insulting.
Thank you all for making this a good online community.
Mar 30, 2017, 2:16 pm
#58
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orlando
Programs: AA Exec Plat, HH Lifetime Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, Marrriott Silver, SPG, National Exec Elite
Posts: 187
No. much worse over at Cruise Critic. 
Fact is just about every airline/hotel/cruise board has its detractors. Things change over time, some good, some bad. I agree though that the tone of some posters is too aggressive, condescending and in some cases down right mean.
Fact is just about every airline/hotel/cruise board has its detractors. Things change over time, some good, some bad. I agree though that the tone of some posters is too aggressive, condescending and in some cases down right mean.
Mar 30, 2017, 2:35 pm
#59
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 85
I'm a Silver Card fairly frequent flier. I always fly BA because I need to maintain my Silver Card baggage allowance, so that I can comfortably bring my musical equipment for professional engagements. I fly about 6-10 long haul segments per year (mostly in CW using avios upgrades or companion voucher redemptions) and about 15-25 short hall segments, some in Club Europe (to earn the TPs).
I kinda know what to expect with BA, even with the recent "enhancements" and on the whole I'm still a pretty satisfied customer. I think that if you don't raise your expectations too high you will still find BA to be a solid and satisfactory choice. And I must say I remain a big fan of the CW yin-yang seats (window and aisle) when travelling with my partner.
I kinda know what to expect with BA, even with the recent "enhancements" and on the whole I'm still a pretty satisfied customer. I think that if you don't raise your expectations too high you will still find BA to be a solid and satisfactory choice. And I must say I remain a big fan of the CW yin-yang seats (window and aisle) when travelling with my partner.
Last edited by stevehh; Mar 30, 2017 at 4:41 pm
Mar 30, 2017, 2:36 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IC Ambassador, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 3,166
I am not a regualr poster but I have been a lurker and occasional commenter on the forums for a while.
From my perspective, BA was THE market leading airline not too many years ago and has been on a decline to what I would now see as an average airline. There are things they do well, great staff as most acknowledge and they are pretty consistent.
Compensation for when things go wrong was quite (overly) generous when things went wrong, and is now less so, in some cases to the other extreme (no seat cushion, inoperative seat in F as examples)
The change im dyamic of the airline will mean people have strong views, and the fact that this is an anonymous internet forum means that versions of events, both positive and negative are sometimes embelished to enhance the story.
What doesn't change is the value this forum provides as a resource, the input of the likes of CWS who seems to be in the air more than he is on the ground allows less regular travellers to access information they couldn't get anywhere else.
We won't always agree, we won't always like an opinion that differs from our own, but we all have our own perspectives - but there is no need for things to get personal or insulting.
Thank you all for making this a good online community.
From my perspective, BA was THE market leading airline not too many years ago and has been on a decline to what I would now see as an average airline. There are things they do well, great staff as most acknowledge and they are pretty consistent.
Compensation for when things go wrong was quite (overly) generous when things went wrong, and is now less so, in some cases to the other extreme (no seat cushion, inoperative seat in F as examples)
The change im dyamic of the airline will mean people have strong views, and the fact that this is an anonymous internet forum means that versions of events, both positive and negative are sometimes embelished to enhance the story.
What doesn't change is the value this forum provides as a resource, the input of the likes of CWS who seems to be in the air more than he is on the ground allows less regular travellers to access information they couldn't get anywhere else.
We won't always agree, we won't always like an opinion that differs from our own, but we all have our own perspectives - but there is no need for things to get personal or insulting.
Thank you all for making this a good online community.
However, it is also a sad state of affairs when I have to say I am being sincere, not sarcastic.