Beano HK

Thanks orbitmic for a thoughtful thread. It's indeed interesting to read about the "fortress" and I suspect you are right in your sentiments.
With my travel patterns, I could also easily achieve GGL similar status with FB and actually CDG is in the right direction for me most of the time.
But Im hesitant. I might try a few flights and see how I get on though for comparison purposes.
My problem (admittedly a first world one) is I'm GfL, GGL and have a fair stash of Avios in the bank. I'm using QR more and more and am now EK Gold too. I really don't want to divide my "loyalty" even further and, effectively, start again.
I note other posters comments about the seat, and I remain a fan of the CW seat. I still recall the thrill of the first time I sat in one and was on a 744 to Rio many years ago.
I always try and book a bulkhead seat to avoid the steppy over game, and lie flat is a must.
To be frank though, QR is an excellent product and with BHX and MAN nearby, pricing levels nearly always vastly cheaper, aisle access in J, BA needs to keep up with the times if it wishes to remain relevant.
The one thing I do find with QR is often the layover, with EK now 3 flights a day ex-BHX this is less of an issue.
I'm not sure I agree with flatlander above when he says "many of their competitors cannot guarantee lie flat" - there are far more that offer lie flat than don't.

ukgooner

its pure speculation that this has something to do with perceived BA dissatisfaction. There is a world of difference between the hot air of this forum and the real situation amongst the majority of GGL members, particularly if you exclude the weird manufactured types. If they really were keen to 'go after' BA they'd do a status match. But other than the wildfire of excitement amongst this community when such things occur, they never seem to attract proper profitable long term business. I wonder why?

The real story is that this was a noted missing element of Flying Blue - and they wanted to introduce something similar to Hon and GGL. If anything it's more likely to attract struggling Hon members as it's less point to point than BA, and their earning rates have been slashed far more than BA.

orbitmic

In what sense? AF new J seat is the Cirrus. It is fully flat, in 1-2-1 configuration and much better than theCW seat. (Same as CX and AA77W) What is very rightly mentioned above is that the conversion is annoyingly slow. The vast majority of 777s are now converted but AF haven't started converting the A380s and few remaining A330s won't be converted at all as they plan to retire them. moreover the Cirrus is not adapted to the A380 and AFare internally arguing on which design to go for.

In other words, in this case, the issue is not listening but delivery. AF now guarantee the new cabins on many routes east and west but yyz is not one of them, and like the op I personally wouldn't fly AF on that route especially as AC also offers pretty good J seats.

orbitmic

The AF efforts to seduce their high status pax continues, and quite frankly, BA could learn a thing or two from what the crew I spoke to confirm is an explicit new strategy from AF to encourage crew to show initiative to improve the travelling experience of high status pax.

In practice, today, short haul Y (blocked middle seat) followed by short long haul W, on a pretty low fare. The perks - all pro-active - worked out as followed from two fabulous crews just bending backwards to make our trip great:

Short haul:
- Came to greet us and ask how we were doing bringing us pillows;
- Brought us two small bottles of water before take off (obviously, flight itself had snack and full bar, that is entirely separate);
- and quite bizarrely, after I went to the bathroom at the rear of the cabin, Purser came to tell me to 'please do not hesitate to come to the front next time. You are worth it!' (in French, and yes, the exact words of the Loreal ad!)

Quite frankly, it made me thing of how long away BA would go if it just offered a similar small bottle of water to GCH and above on short haul Y!

Long haul:
- Chief Purser came to introduce himself, greet us, and ask our dedicated crew member to do what she could to make our trip 'more comfortable', which she eagerly delivered, notably:
- Came early to ask us for our choice of main course to guarantee it;
- Before serving us lunch came to ask us if we were more into white or red wine and brought us a (very full!) glass of the J wine (a nice Chablis 1er cru);
- Offered us an espresso from J;
- When I asked what digestives they have in W (they have plenty!) she asked me what I normally have and I said I usually have a Chartreuse but know that I realise they only have it in F and J and was more than happy to make do with whatever they offered in W but I just did not know what that was. She brought me a Chartreuse (properly served with an ice cube!);
- As she noticed we were both drinking sparkling water, she brought us a full 1 litre bottle of Perrier to keep for the rest of the flight (total flight time was a mere 4 hours and went like a treat!)

I don't expect any special treatment due to status and would never ask for it, but quite frankly, it was delivered extremely gracefully, happened to hit the spot on virtually every effort, and was extremely generous. I have had lovely "GGL treats" from crew on BA too (though rarely that many) but quite frankly, I have not had anything (not even a greeting, let alone a freebie) from crew in short haul Y since BoB has been introduced, and that is already over two dozens flights.

I also have the impression that great treatment I get on BA is due to great crew but not to an explicit encouragement from management to take initiative to pro-actively improve the travel experience of high status members, which AF crew confirmed is the instruction that they have received. Historically, BA has been more successful than anyone at consolidating loyalty. If they drop that ball, it seems clearer than ever than others are willing to get out of their way to try and replace them.

Dan72

I agree. Plus I know it's improved, but transferring at CDG is not a pleasant experience. That with the possibility of a slopey seat and modest (albeit stylish) lounges, I expect most London based business travellers will stick with BA.

orbitmic

I think the London-based travellers will stick to BA just like the Paris-based travellers stuck to af even when it was rubbish. The issue are the 'competitive bunch', those who fly GVA-JNB, LAX-NCE, BCN-HKG or DEL-IAH. They are the ones up for grab and they represent a sizeable market that kept BA afloat when other airlines badly suffered in the noughties crisis.

that said, my transfer from 2F to 2E took less than 10 minutes including passport control, and the lounge experience was fine, not CCR of course, but actually better than GC on many levels, including a 20 Minutes spa treatment which is something I was not able to get on any of my last three connecting F trips on BA.

i guess my point is that others have finally smelt the coffee who never used to where BA seems to have largely stopped trying, and could consider whether there are relatively cheap ways in which they could renew their effort instead in terms of soft perks, especially as F wing and lounge upgrades suggests they realise through hard perks that something is worth doing.

Robespierre

Without turning this into an AF thread I think the relevance to BA is how long it takes to recover when your reputation sinks. There is no doubt that AF is making an effort and I have had very nice light touch recognition from the Chef de Cabine on the rare international flights that I take with them rather than BA. I am high up on their equivalent of CIV due to a corp agreement.

The hard product is now better than BA on 777s and will also be true on non-domestic A320s once BA refit these with super high density. Soft product is improving dramatically.

I am now at the stage where I would give a route specific recommendation to AF over BA in J or an unequivocal recommendation in Y for short haul. Something that a few years ago would be unimaginable. Ground experience still sucks mind you.