Ancient Observer

I would be Proud to be a Tesco tourist. Our local Tesc is a much nicer experience than our local Waitrose.

Flexible preferences

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PUCCI GALORE

If you say so Dear. I would say that is an ironic thing to say in this Temple of Travel Snobbery - and of course inverted Snobbery. How oftendo I read people proclaiming themselves as "Humble Blues". Still that does not address the matter at hand.

Thank you for how to handle these matters, CWS and for confirming what action one should adopt. It is reassuring to know that none of us, wherver we happen to shop is going to get thrown out before anyone else though of course how they do chose who will and who won't will remain mired in mystery.

Flexible preferences

FT a 'Temple of Travel Snobbery'? Wash your mouth out with soap* and water!

(*Triple-milled French, of course)

zippyboarder

During the fog just before Christmas flight LHR-SZG was cancelled got rebooked on the next days flight from LGW and downgraded from CE to ET. Avios redemption with Amex 2 4 1 voucher.

I was just happy to travel at that point. Arrived at gate and the guy in front of us got a beep and there´s an upgrade for you today sir.

Not very happy but I said to myself it was probably because there was 2 of us travelling and only 1 seat available, although I don´t know for sure.

Washington DC

Just making sure you were still able to get your EU downgrade compensation

orbitmic

And indeed, why not - I think it is perfectly sensible for people who shop at Tesco's to try and get something for their expenditure, be it in the form of BA goodies or otherwise.

Wayland

I might have a data point coming up in the next few days. Five of us (2 adults, 3 kids) booked in First to IAD using 2 x 241, so 480k avios total return. 4 of us are gold and 1 (my eldest son, 13 yrs old) is a silver. Flight is currently showing F0 A0 J9...

Wayland

It was still showing F0 A0 at T-24 but no probs with online checkin and all 5 of us now seated in F. Not definitive of course, but if BA were planning to downgrade an Amex 241 then I would have expected a "not possible to checkin online, please head to airport" message.

zsalya_fly

On First to CW I would not be too upset, although my advice to BA in that circumstance would be to start by suggesting downgrading both passengers.

On CW to WTP overnight I would have a huge issue.
I always refuse to fly overnight unless I have a flat bed.

If I had not managed to negotiate something around next flight/alternative OW carrier etc, my thought on the legal position is that the booking for two people is one contract.

If they had not offered the 241 arrangement then we would have not made the booking, so they cannot separate out the companion passenger and base calculations on that.

FlyboyStu

I've just lodged a CEDR adjudication case over precisely this - downgrade from CW to WTP on an 11-hour overnight flight where all BA have offered for the downgrade is 30,000 Avios being the difference between the two fares for one passenger only. This is in contravention of the downgrade reimbursement specified by article 10 of EC261. They have refused to offer anything for the Amex 2-4-1, valuing it at zero, despite my referring to the case of bernardh detailed on here from July last year, EC261, the views of the CAA, and the fact that the voucher appears as part of the payment summary on the booking email along with Avios and cash.

BA's position is that the voucher was used, albeit against a WTP flight rather than the CW we'd booked. They maintain this despite my telling them on multiple occasions that we would never have booked WTP flights on such an overnight flight. I will also be making representations to Amex, as they might like to know that BA publicly maintains that their vouchers are worthless, and to the CAA - BA's legal team know they have no grounds for this view yet they continue to peddle it hoping that passengers will give in.

corporate-wage-slave

That's good to hear. It would be really good if you could keep the forum informed on this. 2-4-1 downgrades aren't that common, but when they do occur the outcomes tend to be messy. Have you made a case for a specific level of remediation, or are you simply rejecting the 30K offer?

The problem with bernardh's case was that his claim was for a shorthaul sector and came to a total of £205, so BA were never going to defend that.

mike&co

There's an interesting HFP article posted this morning on 241 downgrades

http://www.headforpoints.com/2017/02...or-downgrades/

memesweeper

Head for points is claiming 2-4-1s are being targeted for downgrades on overbooked flights. One report is of a pair being downgraded when flight only overbooked by one seat -- looks deeply suspicious to me!

http://www.headforpoints.com/2017/02/25/more-evidence-of-ba-prioritising-avios-bookings-for-downgrades/

...if this is true it will downgrade the 2-4-1 voucher to zero value in my eyes and that of many others I'm sure.

FlyboyStu

Wilco CWS. This forum has been extremely helpful to me in deciphering the regulations so that is the least I can do in return.

I suggested alternatives to BA, including your proposal of 75% of one ticket and space-available upgrade on an upcoming booking, or credit of 75% of the Avios cost for two; all rejected. I was originally planning on going straight for MCOL and so priced up what it would cost to reimburse 75% of the Avios for two, i.e. 93,750, less the 30,000 they have credited. The nearest amount BA will sell is 65,000, for which they charge £1,055. I have also added £41 for Article 9 costs incurred (taxi from hotel, sundry refreshments etc.) that I had offered to waive if they accepted earlier proposals making a total claim of £1,096.

If I fail at CEDR I will go for MCOL, partly because the claim is significant enough to make it worth my while but mainly because I feel strongly that their policy of claiming that Amex 2-4-1 vouchers are worthless is just plain wrong and unfair. I felt it worth a go via CEDR partly because it doesn't prevent subsequent MCOL, but also because it's potentially an easier, cheaper and less intimidating route for others to follow in future and I wanted to see whether it's viable. I called CEDR first to check that downgrade is within their remit as it's not clear from their FAQs; they confirmed that it is. I also made sure to get the 'This is our final offer; you have the right to take it to CEDR' email from BA that CEDR require if you issue a claim before 8 weeks have passed from initial complaint to BA, although their web site form doesn't work in this situation and you have to download a PDF, complete it offline and then upload.

Interestingly, when BA credited my Avios account with the 30,000, they did so by crediting it with 125,000, presumably representing the cost of the downgraded leg for 2 people, and then recharged it with 95,000, which I think rather proves the point that the sector cost is 125,000.