Originally Posted by 710 77345

What would be interesting would be to see the number of BA cancellations by day, vs all other airlines by day.

Originally Posted by hugolover

There is a point where the elements within its own control result in liability even if the pressures of standard winter weather caused their flying programmes to disintegrate. My delay today is caused by the carrier not having enough aircraft in their hub to operate the flight due to yesterdays disruption resulting in a missed connection & not holding my connecting flight for a short period to ensure my connection. They could have decided to cancel other services, charter aircraft, use larger aircraft, rebook to OAL, all which could reduce an eligible delay by way of the 3hr+ marker.

Originally Posted by MLE1

Dear All,
Just checking if I am insane and what my next step should be. Please let me know what you guys think.

On November 2nd I went with my best friend to Abu Dhabi (Fairmont hotel = great!) to do nothing (drinking).

Routing
Outbound: AMS-LHR-AUH on Nov. 2nd.
Inbound: AUH-LHR-AMS Nov. 6st at 2.05 am.
The AUH-LHR flight was cancelled and rerouted from DXB.

On Friday November 3rd at 3.45 pm I received an email our flight (BA0072) was cancelled. We were put on the 2 pm flight from DXB, also on November 6th.
I Called BA: reason of cancellation was unknown. Only other option was same 2 am flight on November 5th or same flight on November 8th.
Arrived more then 12 hours later in AMS on November 6th.

A week later I filed an expenses claim and a separate EC/261 claim.
Expenses claim was awarded but EC/261 was not. BA is not taking responsibility because of technical failure.

Within 10 days after I filed for both (separately) I received he following reply:

"Dear Sir Rambo,

Thanks for your recent emails about your flight from Abu Dhabi on 06 November in Club World. I know how stressful it can be when your flight’s cancelled, mainly because you have to change all your plans. You certainly don’t expect this to happen when you fly with us and I’m sorry we let you and Mr Chuck Norris down.

I’m afraid however, your compensation claim’s been refused because BA0072 on 06 November 2017 was cancelled because of technical reasons, which wasn’t caused by British Airways and prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
To explain further, there’s currently an issue with the Rolls Royce engines on all B787 aircraft. British Airways and all other airlines operating these aircraft are therefore under instruction from Boeing to remove these aircraft from service for further inspection. I’m afraid this was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the cancellation was necessary in this case.

Of course, we’ll fully cover your hotel, food and transport expenses you had as a result. I’ve therefore arranged a refund of €1,2 Million to your bank account and this will be with you shortly.

Thanks again for getting in touch with us so we could explain the background. We value your loyalty as a Gold member of our Executive Club and I hope you enjoy your flight with us in February. Please feel free to contact me directly using the blue link below if I can help you with anything else.

Best regards

Pamela Anderson”


Am I wrong to say these technical reasons are not “extraordinary circumstances”?
And/or is this technical issue sincere and is it a serious reason that BA would not be liable for the compensation?

BTW. Common sense tells me BA had more then enough time to find another aircraft.


Looking forward to what you guys think and/or advice what my next step should be or that I just let it be...

Thanks a lot!
M.

Originally Posted by stephem

I need some help locating documentation about the reason that BA 85 was delayed yesterday (Monday). When I got on the plane nearly 3 hours late I asked multiple crew members and they told me it was because the original airplane went technical and we had to wait for a replacement. The pilot made a similar announcement while apologizing to us as the doors were being closed up.

Originally Posted by koyote

Am I entitled to compensation for the second cancelled flight? Should I be filing the complaint with Luxair? Should I even try filing a complaint with BA at this point?

Originally Posted by Globaliser

FWIW, this is what has come out of ExpertFlyer:-

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave

That would be Luxair to whom you would complain. It's always the operating airline. If it was weather related (not sure what Ops means in this context) then you won't get anything.

Originally Posted by Takiteasy

What is the view on this forum in respect of flights that were cancelled ex-LHR on the evening of Monday 11th Dec? Is that still weather related or at which point after the Monday morning snow does one have a reasonable crack at compensation and argue it was not extraordinary circumstances anymore?

Originally Posted by Tim_T

Received notification today from CEDR.
Not unexpectedly, I lost at CEDR for flight cancellation due to MF cabin crew strike.
Reasons given are below. I don't agree with it, especially point 10 which is not true. I also don't understand points 9 and 12, why cancelling 4 days in advance is reasonable grounds for denying EC261 since there is no requirement for this point in the regs other than within 2 weeks. I believe CEDR has ignored most of my evidence and sided strongly with BA. I'm not surprised to be honest.

I hope this helps others.
Tim_T


Reasons for decision

1. The passenger claims compensation pursuant to Article 7 Regulation 261 for the cancellation of the Flight. The airline submits the Flight was cancelled due to extraordinary circumstances and the Flight compensation is therefore not payable.

2. The airline submits the Flight was cancelled on 23 August 2017 due to planned and actual industrial action by its Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew.

3. Recital 14 of Regulation 261 provides “ As under the Montreal Convention, obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. Such circumstances may, in particular occur in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier.”

4. I am mindful of the Civil Aviation Authority’s non-binding list of the types of incident that may qualify as extraordinary circumstances inclusive of industrial relations issues. Industrial relations issues are described as strikes that affect the operation of an air carrier. For example strikes by airport staff, ground handlers, or air traffic control. Given that the CAA is the National Enforcement Body (NEB) for Regulation 261, I find it is reasonable to attach weight to its opinions in this matter.

5. I find in order for the strike action by the airline’s own employees to qualify as an extraordinary circumstance the airline would have to evidence that the industrial action by its Mixed Fleet Cabin crew was not inherent in its normal operating activities and beyond its control.

6. The airline submits that to avoid the strike action it undertook extensive negotiations with the union representing its Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew. The negotiations had been extensive but failed to reach a satisfactory conclusion. There was a union ballot by the airline’s Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew, which came out in favour of strike action.

7. In view of the above, I find that the airline was not directly in control of the industrial action by its Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew nor was the strike action inherent in the normal activity of the airline and qualifies as an extraordinary circumstance.

8. The burden however is on the airline to prove that it took all reasonable measures to avoid the cancellation of the Flight. The airline submits it put in place extensive contingency planning and has 400 volunteer staff trained to operate as full time cabin crew in situations such as cabin crew strikes. The airline contends that despite all of its planning it could not operate all its flights as scheduled on 27 August 2017 and the Flight had to be cancelled.

9. To keep the passenger’s disruption to a minimum the airline cancelled the Flight 4 days in advance. The airline submits this allowed the passenger more re-routing options and an increased chance of departing an arriving closer to his originally scheduled time. The airline initially automatically re-routed the passenger on flights AA5761 Houston Airport (HOU) to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), AA80 DFW - LHR and BA1488 LHR - Glasgow Airport (GLA) on 23 August 2017 evidenced by the screenshot of the passenger’s record booking. The passenger contacted the airline and advised the alternative flights were not suitable. The airline submits it discussed other options with the passenger and re-routed the passenger on flight BA288 from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX) to LHR to connect to the already booked flight BA1488.

10. Further, the airline submits that prior to and during the strike action plans and processes were put in place to minimise the disruption inclusive of leasing other aircraft and crews from other aircraft operators. The airline submits that tight restrictions by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) govern wet leasing and the airline for example is restricted from only wet leasing from the approved “white list” and can lease from an airline for a maximum 3 consecutive days in any 28 day period. This includes aircraft from within its own group.

11. Additionally the airline submits it made a special effort to encourage Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew to work as usual and offered support and assistance to those who did come to work.

12. I find that cancelling the flight four days in advance reasonable in the circumstances. The airline upon finding out the initial flights the passenger was rebooked on did not meet the passenger’s needs, reasonably rebooked the passenger without delay onto more suitable flights at the passengers request, which caused the least disruption to the passenger.

13. I find the airline has sufficiently evidenced that the cancellation was caused due to extraordinary circumstances and the airline took all reasonable measures in the circumstances. I find the airline is not liable to pay Regulation 261 compensation to the passenger.

Decision

● The passenger’s claim does not succeed.

Originally Posted by cziwkga

It's clear to me that if my flight to EDI was cancelled I would be able to do this. It's one of the 3 options I can choose (refund, reroute as soon as possible or reroute at my leisure.) It's also clear that I would be able to ask to be returned to my starting point and get a refund, but I don't want that. Reading through all the helpful material in this thread I'm still unclear what my options might be. If anyone has insight or experience of similar circumstances I would be grateful to hear it.