Like so many others, I am most certainly of the view that BA should focus a lot more on improvement and initiative, as distinct from cost-cutting and degradation. And yet the more I think about this move to a domestic version of CE, I'm not totally convinced it's worth bothering. The current version of CE is so far below (admittedly, in common with that of several other intra-Europe s/h carriers) what one might reasonably expect of a true 'business class' product, that perhaps the resources needed to get this going could be better deployed elsewhere.

I was suspect JER should be the model for both. 40 TPs per sector and Band 1 catering and bar run. This applies to a route which is shorter than virtually any of the DOM routes gaining CE.

MAN-LHR, LBA-LHR, and JER-LGW are all pretty much the same length. All are around 35-40 minutes flight time. I agree though, seems an interesting model to follow, and also surprising if they were to give 40 TP for domestic CE.

Its to cater for those buying F or J tickets and being asked to fork out £2.30 for a tea bag. I doubt this would have happened had BoB not.

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.

Until the average passenger and corporate account manager sets quality considerations above price, this simply isn't going to happen as it makes no business sense.

Instead BA recognise that for SH Y price is king and its focus has been on that. It has matched/bettered the LCC offer with same day flexibility on plus fares, but brought in BoB.

However, it also recognises that LCCs don't have a business product and it can therefore attract this lucrative business. In Europe proper business seats are not going to happen on routes of four hours or less. Demand isn't there. It is worth remembering that in many markets flights of this duration would be one-class only on many airlines.

I personally think the current CE offer is right. I place much greater value on the empty middle seat and therefore greater personal space than legroom. The food and beverage offer at the moment is about as good as it has ever been in the last 15-20 years. Couple that with investment in lounges such as LGW and the CE product is looking pretty rosy.

I for one haven't flown DOM with BA for 20 years because I don't like Y flights and therefore take first class on the train in preference. I shall now be flying DOM with BA.

I wonder if IB J passengers have been getting free service when they connect to/from domestic flights?

You would be surprised, if they offered 40TPs on DOM CE? Why?

Again, using JER as a model, CE from LGW is amongst the most affordable on BA at about £200 return. I imagine DOM CE on busy routes like MAN, EDI or GLA being at least that with lowest fare bucket selling out quickly on popular flights like Friday evenings. That argues for TPs to be the same.

Also, BA are more generous when stepping up a cabin. Look at WTP where cheapest fares, which cost much less than top end WT fares, get full cabin earnings at much higher rate than any WT fare.

I personally hope BA go down the CE is 40 TPs on all routes and all fares except the few higher band destinations.

I just wouldn't have expected it - not that it won't happen of course. BA don't seem to be in a 'giving' mood atm.

EDIT: just to add as noted in #204 this change is prompted by connecting F & J passengers who are otherwise being asked to pay for BoB, not because anyone feels sold short on TPs on domestic flight.

I would actually be very surprised if there is any change to the TPs earned in CE. I expect domestics to earn in exactly the same way as other European routes with all CE fares earning 40TPs and all economy earning 20, 10 or 5 according to fare bucket.

It certainly will be interesting to see what happens.

Although Iberia and their domestic business product pay 20 IIRC.

Absolutely agree on the catalyst for CE in DOM, but this also fits with Cruz's investor day presentation comments about improving premium offer.

That means a two strand approach - make Y more LCC-like, but genuinely enhance the Club offer so that it is substantially better. Offering fewer TPs in a way that is inconsistent with the rest of the CE brand seems to go against that strategy.

I see many people seeing this as a BA attempt to finally improve service, i just see it as further capacity control aimed at increasing yield on high demand routes although am glad it will end up improving service for those who use it.

For the rest it aims to increase fares and reduce award availability and i personally also expect the free domestic connection to long haul award seats to be removed sooner rather than later 'out of fairness'.

Amusingly, I have a U booking (will now be CE if HFP is correct) that I already got some avios compensation on because it was booked pre-BoB. Now looks like I'll get my free G&T as well!

While I'm generally lukewarm on the CE product, I do think it's quite sufficient for a 1 hour hop. I will appreciate being seated closer to the door, avoiding the BoB faff, and having confidence that I won't be playing elbow-wars with someone when connecting from a long journey. Domestic CE is definitely good news as far as I'm concerned.

Whether I'll pay for it routinely will obviously depend on the pricing!

IB domestic J is quite pleasant.

Or do you mean IB pax connecting to UK domestic?

All IB services have J - even the tiniest Air Nostrum aircraft.

Correct, except for the Canary Islands.

Perhaps we could see JER moving to 20 TPs?

Interesting that those booked into full Y class will be treated as J. I suppose this follows from the fact that Y was formerly a Business UK bucket priced at the same rate as the full J fare.

Still it now means that Y is a J class fare bucket. :)

According to MMB, our domestic (connecting F) redemption class is X and not U.

Presumably this means we will be in Economy? We are travelling on April 19th, so would be nice for the couple we are travelling with (first time F for them ) to see domestic CE as well.

While I don't mind, I do think that for a F redemption it's a bit weak having to BoB, especially when our European counterparts book into CE on CW/F redemptions.

Should I call up BA on April 2nd?

The problem was that the U bucket (redemption business) does not yet exist on domestic flights. Instead redemptions booked into X (redemption economy).

I would wait for the bucket to appear and then phone up with your complaint. You may find that BA agrees with you.

We have an upgraded wtp to CW which is booked into J and a CW redemption which has booked into U for the Ncl-Lhr sectors. Added bonus for our trip.

FWIW, there are already BA domestic flights with a Club cabin (and I don't mean JER). These earn 40/20/10/5 like Club Europe does.

The domestics that earn 20/10/5/5 are not BA flights.

Also, BA UK domestic flights already earn xx/20/10/5 (if xx denotes the notional Club cabin that does not currently exist). If BA were to make BA UK domestic Club earn only 20 TPs, then that would imply one of only two rational scenarios: either the new earning structure would be 20/20/10/5 (which would be a novel structure) or it would be 20/10/5/5 (and would incur the wrath of those whose economy TPs were being cut).

Is that really likely? Pepertual doom-mongering aside, there doesn't seem to be much logic in doing either when there is already precedent for BA domestics to earn in the same structure as other BA short-haul, and when a difference in structure between BA UK domestic and BA non-UK domestic would shine a harsh spotlight on the former.

Any idea what this means for UK-LHR-XXX WTP bookings? Will they continue booking in to J or is it down the back for us now ahah.

I would assume (or maybe hope is a better word) that they would continue to be treated as Business UK and book into J so we'd be in front of the curtain :)

I've an INV-LHR on the 1st April when this launches. It's still showing 3x3 throughout the cabin -

Will inform FT if it's very different or not -

I'm on the LHR-INV, I'll wave! My mmb is still showing 1A and 3x3 also.

I hope youre right but I have a feeling it won't last long, BA will close the loophole soon enough.

U Class is and has been available on domestics for years. Sometimes gives trouble for lounge entry tho. Usually issued in connection with a U class international flight.

I would imagine WT+ will go to B class within U.K. and to/from JER.

Interesting that BA have managed this in a few months while on EI they announced the equivalent on European SH Aer Space but it still has not been launched.

I've got ZRH-LHR-MAN and MAN-LHR-ZRH redemptions all booked into U and the domestic legs still show 3-3. Flights are in July. Probably it takes time to update the systems and seat maps and it'll be interesting if we end up in CE or not.

A huge number of GLA-LHR are full already on 3x3 seating, what will happen with capacity with spare seat? Mmm.

So are you suggesting this will change completely or..? Only I booked a WTP JER-LHR-JFK and the JER leg booked into J. It should be ashame to see WTP bookings change to economy class on the SH legs.

The devil will be in the detail - IE will it be Band 1 catering / will they take the opportunity to enhance Band 1 etc but I agree with the sentiment.I don't want to fly economy and actively avoided domestics because having a bit more space and more personal service is important as it makes the difference between arriving refreshed or arriving frazzled. I don't support BoB and cost cutting and I don't think there's a lot of market leading thinking going on here but if i can still get a full service product (for a premium on the basic fares) then that suits me and I cautiously welcome it. The cynic in me says they'll "harmonise" jersey at the same time but maybe not. Maybe it'll be more tps for all as ET will now be UK Dom so who knows.

I have to say I find this baffling. The difference between CE and ET on a 1 hour flight is minimal at best. In terms of the extra space, if you have status you'll often find the seat beside you empty and yourself toward the front of the plane anyway.

Do you really find the difference to be that large that you simply won't fly economy? Even for 1 hour?

I'd put 23rd Feb in your diary.

It's not just about the seat though. It's about the overall experience including ground handling and on board service. For instance, except on aircraft with no wardrobe I appreciate having jacket hung up so I don't either sit in it, or put it in overhead locker. I like the fact I get a proper class, not a plastic one. I like the additional service level and style in CE. My travel is almost exclusively leisure and I see the journey as part of the trip so I do value what they offer. The middle seat is part of it but if that didn't come with proper catering and all the other bells and whistles I wouldn't bother.

Dont get me wrong I wouldn't buy a full flex J ticket but CE pricing is keen these days (c£200-300 round trip which 20 years ago you could pay for Y).

I'm doing a B2B - I think you're in my seat ;)

Look forward to it! Outbound, if it's true CE, it would be brunch then lunch back?

Should be interesting, tried to move seat to 1F and it came up with an error:eek:

http://imgur.com/qEUzOnk

Not sure of that. ;)

On your existing bookings you may well be lucky.