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-   -   Club Europe to be introduced on UK domestic flights [launches 01 April 2017] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1800457-club-europe-introduced-uk-domestic-flights-launches-01-april-2017-a.html)

World Traveller Fuss Nov 4, 16 4:14 am

Club Europe to be introduced on UK domestic flights [launches 01 April 2017]
 
Reading through the capital markets day presentation - I realise there's a separate thread, but perhaps this warrants its own.

Want a breakfast to compete with the train? Either way, you gotta pay!

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zht...-presentations

Calchas Nov 4, 16 4:38 am

This is an improvement especially with BoB coming.

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 4:49 am


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 27435059)
This is an improvement especially with BoB coming.

Until you see the fares, I suspect the fare difference to be greater than the cost of a sandwich and a cup of tea. It will be either be a non-flexible fare at a ridiculous price or a flexible fare at an insane price a la KLM.

ratypus Nov 4, 16 4:52 am

Obvious move - now that CE seating allocation is flexible (i.e. move the curtain) it's easy to do, and with the changes to TP earning already made and BoB coming for Y, there are sufficient 'differentiating' factors to push CE more widely and introduce it for the domestic market



ENTP Nov 4, 16 4:52 am

Exactly!

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 4:57 am

CE is barely credible for a 2 to 3 hour flight around Europe, never mind a 45 hop to MAN or LBA. I can only see it being filled with LH J/F passengers on a domestic connection.

raikje Nov 4, 16 4:57 am

Does that, in turn, spell the end for the "Business UK" benefits (lounge / fast track access) on full fare Y?

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 4:58 am


Originally Posted by raikje (Post 27435105)
Does that, in turn, spell the end for the "Business UK" benefits (lounge / fast track access) on full fare Y?

I suspect it would.

flygod Nov 4, 16 5:00 am

Even better if they called it Domestic First:

Then my wife could have booked in advance her seat Scotland - LHR, on a connection to DEL in F, for free

Instead, the seat genies gave her the middle seat in row 28 in a 767 - which she changed at T-24 for a window seat in row 29.

To be frank, she preferred the Priority Pass lounge in T3 to the (very rude staff) in the BA F lounge there when we went to DEN earlier this year, and is quite happy with the PP lounge in T5.

She finds the lack of advance seat reservation on an F ticket for a domestic flight really annoying and would prefer advance seat booking to CCR access!

(which maybe shows how little she values that, since paying for a seat would cost her under a tenner!)

TravellerFrequently Nov 4, 16 5:08 am

Will be interesting to see what the fare will be and the tier points etc

Champagne to GLA! - longer flight that CDG or AMS I believe.

ratypus Nov 4, 16 5:11 am

I suspect some interesting TP runs for the domestic market will start to proliferate on this forum...


I'm almost thinking that with CE on domestic and for 80 TPs (if they follow regular CE TP earning), my "quickest" way to LHR for the start of a long-haul could be LCY-GLA-LHR or something...beats two hours sitting in London traffic or paying through the nose to stand by the loo on the HEX!

KARFA Nov 4, 16 5:13 am


Originally Posted by ratypus (Post 27435132)
I suspect some interesting TP runs for the domestic market will start to proliferate on this forum...


I'm almost thinking that with CE on domestic and for 80 TPs (if they follow regular CE TP earning), my "quickest" way to LHR for the start of a long-haul could be LCY-GLA-LHR or something...beats two hours sitting in London traffic or paying through the nose to stand by the loo on the HEX!

I very much doubt that business selling classes on domestic will go from the current 20 TPs to 40 TPs. IB have a business cabin on their domestic flights and it still earns 20 TPs.

Calchas Nov 4, 16 5:15 am

It does explain why they recently realigned the CE fares to use I class (not J) on domestic.


Originally Posted by raikje (Post 27435105)
Does that, in turn, spell the end for the "Business UK" benefits (lounge / fast track access) on full fare Y?

Certainly.


Originally Posted by kanderson1965 (Post 27435103)
CE is barely credible for a 2 to 3 hour flight around Europe, never mind a 45 hop to MAN or LBA. I can only see it being filled with LH J/F passengers on a domestic connection.

On LHR-EDI there will be plenty of corporate traffic. And in any event, some of us do appreciate not being crammed in. :)


Originally Posted by ratypus (Post 27435132)
I suspect some interesting TP runs for the domestic market will start to proliferate on this forum...


I'm almost thinking that with CE on domestic and for 80 TPs (if they follow regular CE TP earning), my "quickest" way to LHR for the start of a long-haul could be LCY-GLA-LHR or something...beats two hours sitting in London traffic or paying through the nose to stand by the loo on the HEX!

I suspect that it would follow Spanish (mainland) domestic rules, i.e., only 20 points in CD ("Club Domestic"), in line with the current Business UK offering.

ratypus Nov 4, 16 5:19 am

too much to hope for a genuine enhancement then....;-)

KARFA Nov 4, 16 5:22 am


Originally Posted by raikje (Post 27435105)
Does that, in turn, spell the end for the "Business UK" benefits (lounge / fast track access) on full fare Y?

Maybe. But then does it mean all business selling classes on domestic flights will now be in the new Club cabin and give lounge access? Currently only J class gives access.

headingwest Nov 4, 16 5:22 am

What's the likelihood that you'll get the next seat free? No chance, I'd imagine.

It's a good move by BA - but those early morning flights that used to have breakfast will basically be paying a lot more for what they're currently getting for 'free'.

KARFA Nov 4, 16 5:24 am


Originally Posted by headingwest (Post 27435164)
What's the likelihood that you'll get the next seat free?

Unknown atm. You'll have to wait for further details. It may be configured like CE with a table in B & E, or it may not.

manord Nov 4, 16 5:27 am

Probably means that domestic connections for long haul WTP will no longer book into J. So probably reduced TPs for those domestic connection sectors.

KARFA Nov 4, 16 5:28 am


Originally Posted by manord (Post 27435177)
Probably means that domestic connections for long haul WTP will no longer book into J. So probably reduced TPs for those domestic connection sectors.

We don't know yet. However, we already have a precedent since the JER route has a CE cabin and booking JER-LGW with a WTP flight results in you being in the CE cabin.

Calchas Nov 4, 16 5:52 am


Originally Posted by KARFA (Post 27435162)
Maybe. But then does it mean all business selling classes on domestic flights will now be in the new Club cabin and give lounge access? Currently only J class gives access.

I would assume that J,C,D,R,I buckets will be Club Domestic, in alignment with CE.


Originally Posted by KARFA (Post 27435182)
We don't know yet. However, we already have a precedent since the JER route has a CE cabin and booking JER-LGW with a WTP flight results in you being in the CE cabin.

That is probably a mistake based on the fact that "J REQUIRED WITHIN UNITED KINGDOM" includes JER in the context of GDSes.

Calchas Nov 4, 16 5:53 am


Originally Posted by headingwest (Post 27435164)
What's the likelihood that you'll get the next seat free? No chance, I'd imagine.

It says "Club Europe" coming to domestic flights, not "a UK business class product". I would suspect the proposition will be exactly what is offered on CE on other aircraft.

I may be wrong but that's my view. ;)

Gomac Nov 4, 16 5:53 am

Nice move, I currently use RFS for the vast majority of my DOM flights so will probably pay the difference given the BOB and the fact I would have parted with the avios for a few drinks anyways.

One negative I suppose is that if im not in DOM CE then I've lost my front row seat.

mario Nov 4, 16 6:05 am

I think you lot are being extremely naive. These news along the "densification" of LHR-based aircraft hint that they are removing galley space.

I bet that the CE inflight product will become the same as BoB but included in the ticket price instead.

This is the only context where it makes sense to offer CE in UK DOM. There will be no massive changes to the current operations, just make sure that a middle seat is blocked and dish out Ciabattas and G&Ts in plastic cups for free. Done!

madfish Nov 4, 16 6:15 am

Anybody got any information on when this change may occur and what, if anything, the impact will be on flights already booked for next summer?

ShuttleRunner Nov 4, 16 6:47 am

Fair enough, I see the benefit for long haul F & J pax. I certainly wouldn't buy a CE ticket for a domestic.

The main problem I see is capacity, as the domestic flights I'm on are always rammed 3 across.Will there be more flights scheduled at peak time? Or will economy prices be absolutely extortionate too? Moreover, will it just be the front section curtained off with some food but still 3-3?

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 7:09 am


Originally Posted by mario (Post 27435301)
I think you lot are being extremely naive. These news along the "densification" of LHR-based aircraft hint that they are removing galley space.

I bet that the CE inflight product will become the same as BoB but included in the ticket price instead.

This is the only context where it makes sense to offer CE in UK DOM. There will be no massive changes to the current operations, just make sure that a middle seat is blocked and dish out Ciabattas and G&Ts in plastic cups for free. Done!

Yes, another case of misguided hope over experience.

Calchas Nov 4, 16 7:18 am

What I want is a blocked seat beside me. I know you can call up and arrange it but it's a bit of work.

1010101 Nov 4, 16 7:31 am


Originally Posted by mario (Post 27435301)
I think you lot are being extremely naive. These news along the "densification" of LHR-based aircraft hint that they are removing galley space.

I bet that the CE inflight product will become the same as BoB but included in the ticket price instead.

This is the only context where it makes sense to offer CE in UK DOM. There will be no massive changes to the current operations, just make sure that a middle seat is blocked and dish out Ciabattas and G&Ts in plastic cups for free. Done!

Exactly. It will basically be the same as you get now, but they'll rebadge it, charge more, and watch some people lap it up.

corporate-wage-slave Nov 4, 16 8:05 am

I support this idea. If it works to JER (or BRU for that matter) it can work for the much longer segments. Though not a huge fan of Buy on Board, there is now an inner logic, Club Europe with catering, EuroTraveller is to be paid for. For those of us on connections it provides a choice, and an alternative to the Low Cost Carrier model. For those without status it provides a package of benefits, albeit at a cost. This is one change that some of us have lobbied BA for, and I suspect I may well use this option once implemented.

Cynically it gets around the issue of those travellers who can't expense g&t.

hugolover Nov 4, 16 8:26 am

I'm sure firms and self-funding pax alike will be delighted to pay more to get the same as before. BA will put fares up to mitigate the loss of seats at the front and the extra APD.

CityFlyer will deploy Club Lite domestically. What a treat.

Calchas Nov 4, 16 8:30 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 27435744)
I support this idea. If it works to JER (or BRU for that matter) it can work for the much longer segments. Though not a huge fan of Buy on Board, there is now an inner logic, Club Europe with catering, EuroTraveller is to be paid for. For those of us on connections it provides a choice, and an alternative to the Low Cost Carrier model. For those without status it provides a package of benefits, albeit at a cost. This is one change that some of us have lobbied BA for, and I suspect I may well use this option once implemented.

Cynically it gets around the issue of those travellers who can't expense g&t.

I agree.

simons1 Nov 4, 16 8:43 am

Makes sense really and easy to do. A bit of rag on a pole, empty middle seat, retain current catering, bump up the current prices.

Win/win really.

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 8:46 am

There is still a future for the individually wrapped crisp.

LTN Phobia Nov 4, 16 8:49 am

Two words: connecting traffic.

You really cannot expect people off on (or off from) F to do BoB on a domestic leg for bottled water, can you?

TravellerFrequently Nov 4, 16 8:53 am


Originally Posted by headingwest (Post 27435164)
What's the likelihood that you'll get the next seat free? No chance, I'd imagine.

It's a good move by BA - but those early morning flights that used to have breakfast will basically be paying a lot more for what they're currently getting for 'free'.

I thought the same thing.

TravellerFrequently Nov 4, 16 8:56 am


Originally Posted by LTN Phobia (Post 27435949)
Two words: connecting traffic.

You really cannot expect people off on (or off from) F to do BoB on a domestic leg for bottled water, can you?

Good point.

Maintain some standard for those on connections to/from J and F flights.
flights that

kanderson1965 Nov 4, 16 8:59 am


Originally Posted by LTN Phobia (Post 27435949)
Two words: connecting traffic.

You really cannot expect people off on (or off from) F to do BoB on a domestic leg for bottled water, can you?

No, which is why my bank balance is rather healthy from the refunds for F trips with domestic connections I have recently cancelled.

corporate-wage-slave Nov 4, 16 10:27 am

I've had a message that points out that buy on board will change the staffing dynamics quite significantly on domestics, which suggests the airline isn't suggesting huge demand for BoB on short sectors. And there isn't on easyJet domestics either, for that matter. Therefore it makes sense to standardise the European routes with the same staffing and delivery standard throughout. It also means CE passengers in the UK will primarily get their service via the SCCM.

headingwest Nov 4, 16 10:35 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 27435629)
It will basically be the same as you get now, but they'll rebadge it, charge more, and watch some people lap it up.

This just about sums it up for me!

Drinks are currently free on domestics (and breakfasts too), in my opinion it's unlikely that the next seat will be free, so the only difference will be a 5 salad plonked in front of you...but I'm sure there will be plenty of takers. Oh, and for those of you at the back of the airplane, stuff you.

As we all now know Willie wants to see your money, basically whether at the front or the back you'll all be paying more.

Boten Nov 4, 16 11:19 am


Originally Posted by headingwest (Post 27436433)

As we all now know Willie wants to see your money, basically whether at the front or the back you'll all be paying more.

A CEO that wants customers to give money and also wishes that those same customers pay more than they used to? Whatever is this world coming to? The board should sack him immediately.

I am very pleased about Domestic CE. I never have to fly BA Y again. It does make sense and is hardly a coincidence with the BoB. Perfect for J and F connecting passengers.


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