view

As a point of reference, Lufthansa offers 4000 Euro for invol F to C downgrade. However they are not in the habit of overselling F.

Tobias-UK

Actually they do oversell, and like BA their oversales algorithm appears effective. Downgrades on BA are rare, they are not as frequent as is being implied here.

LTN Phobia

I fly both 'full revenue' F and using vouchers or points/miles etc and I beg to differ. I would rather be bumped down when using a voucher, miles or points etc. than when I paid cash for F.

If I didn't pay cash for F it means I put less emphasis on being in F - if I had paid cash for F that's because I needed to be in F for whatever reason.

That's just me and I'm sure other people differ but I don't think F downgrades should be too black and white in the order of check-in (really, a volunteer should be sought discreetly without fail ad should be given to whoever volunteers for X amount of money).

If given a right set of circumstance I'd volunteer to change my flight so that other people can be in F for no compensation whatsoever, as long as my expenses (e.g. extra night's hotel if genuinely applicable but not meals as I have to eat anyway) are covered.

orbitmic

Interesting. AF on the other hand explicitly choose not to oversell P. It is a formal policy.

I agree downgrades in general (not just from F) are rare and people should not start freaking out about it happening all the time, but it is admittedly unpleasant when it does occur, and I do think that from the reports that we have here, BA is proving less than generous (in fact, less than fair) when it occurs, especially through an equipment change.

Tobias-UK

I suppose with only 4 seats (mostly) it might be dangerous to do so!

s0ssos

Actually, just did a quick search on flyertalk for "oversold first". Seeing if NH does it. And it doesn't appear they do. But the second result to pop up is BA overselling first on a 241. So, not uncommon?

It does diminish the whole experience, having to worry about whether or not you're getting your seat. Just another reason first on BA isn't all that (but we already knew it wasn't).

s0ssos

Why does using cash or points make a different value? What you mean is that if you really need the flight you will pay cash, even if there were availability on points, because you presume BA is more likely to bump you if you are using points?

There was a post on someone who was flying CX in first, on points, flight was delayed by a few hours and the person couldn't do that, told the agent he was going to purchase it in cash on SQ and got marched over and put on the SQ flight without having to pay a cent.

Tobias-UK

How many examples have been reported of (a) anyone bring downgraded F to J; and (b) those using Avios and 2for1 certificates?

s0ssos

I don't know, but on a quick google for flyertalk on downgraded from first it pops up a thread from 2006 on being bumped using a 241.
Can you find me any examples on other airlines? Period?

Dambus

At least 4 that can be found quickly here on FT using basic search - plenty of other noise regarding poorly and/or suspiciously targeted BA downgrades on other sites.

Given the recent trajectory on overall customer service approach and cost cutting it is a safe working assumption that BA is actively minimizing the cost of invol downgrades.

I would like to know i) how to avoid this happening to me/my family if at all possible and ii) if the worst were to happen how to fight the good fight.

Tobias-UK

Why should I do all your legwork? It is you who is scaremongering! F to J downgrades are very rare on BA, indeed there aren't that many reported here.

Almost all airlines oversell their aircraft and have to IDB or downgrade passengers, this is not unique to or a particular quirk of BA.

nocod

I had an incident where I had booked an Avios redemption with the 241 voucher in First on a 777-200 (14 F seats). Months out it got subbed to a 787-9 (8 F seats). What happened was that BA downgraded us to CW even though they had revenue seats still open in F! Their phone agents on multiple calls confirmed we had been downgraded and only offered the Avios difference of F and CW.

After being very persistent and threatening with EC261, they finally put us back in F and blamed an IT glitch for the downgrade in the first place

Just another data point for 241s being targeted.

s0ssos

Actually, that is not true. NH doesn't oversell. I doubt SQ does. Nor CX.

You aren't doing any legwork for me. You are stating facts that are simply not true. What does "rare" mean? What does "almost all airlines" mean? All except for one? Two? Three?

s0ssos

I can see why you are the BA Ambassador. So is this how BA handles these downgrades? Telling customers it is very rare. All the other airlines do it too.

Tobias-UK

I am a FlyerTalk Ambassador, not a BA Ambassador

And yes, other airlines do it too.