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Originally Posted by Eskimoboy
(Post 27287977)
That's very concerning, I was hoping I'd be getting 1000avios per leg of each of my bookings. Seems unfair to offer the same amount to someone with only one booking as someone with lots of bookings!
Was told multiple times that catering was free and therefore not part of the fare - ridiculous - and that they could make these changes as they wished and that it was "somewhere" in the T&Cs, which he couldn't find. |
Originally Posted by NickB
(Post 27287998)
And what proportion of BA customers have access to lounges?
As to transportation, yes LHR is a bit cheaper by tube but not as much as you seem to assume: getting to LGW costs under £10 from central London and to STN as low as £7.50 if you book in advance. The differential in transportation costs is typically not enough to compensate for the fare differential. Again, though, you make in any event the same mistake of assuming that people sit down with a calculator and add up everything before deciding whether to fly BA or not. Some will do that but most people who pay more to fly BA do not do it because a fight on Easyjet cost 103.25 when you add everything and a flight on BA costs 102.75 when you add everything. They tend to buy BA (assuming that both the BA flight and the Easyjet flight are acceptable in terms of convenience) because BA is not that much more compared to the Easyjet flight and they regard BA as a premium brand and therefore the flight on BA as being somewhat superior to that on U2 or FR. If you destroy the image of BA as a premium brand, then you also destroy the rationale for paying a little more to fly on BA. There is also the benefit of Avios and TPs earned on BA for all levels of the BAEC. |
Originally Posted by headingwest
(Post 27288006)
..
I've never been so angry with BA. |
Originally Posted by worldtrav
(Post 27288025)
If that is the case there is only one way BA will listen to you, and it will take many more to take their business elsewhere before they actually take notice.
I accept that BA management can do what they like as it's their airline, but I won't be taken for a fool. |
Originally Posted by headingwest
(Post 27288038)
Well concerning my future flying I've already switched all longhaul for next year (4 bookings so far) to Star Alliance. Shorthaul is definitely now going the same way.
I accept that BA management can do what they like as it's their airline, but I won't be taken for a fool. |
Originally Posted by orbitmic
(Post 27287997)
In terms of choices, I think that many people make relatively automatic choices in the long term till they have reason to reconsider. They will choose BA by default like they might vote Labour or Conservative by default, buy another Rover by default or shop at Tesco's by default.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj
(Post 27288081)
What are your alternatives short haul?
But I like the fun factor so I'll now be switching to Aegean...my new sweetheart. :D http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/aegea...ve-aegean.html |
Originally Posted by Flexible preferences
(Post 27288024)
Well, if any mistake has been made, you're the one who got the calculator out, not me in this instance. I was, after all, responding to arguments you made in your post.
I did take the calculator out to meet you on your terrain for the sake of argument but pointed out that, in any event, this is missing the point. There is also the benefit of Avios and TPs earned on BA for all levels of the BAEC. For the sake of clarity, I am only "getting the calculator out" to meet you on your terrain. It seems to me that you think exactly like the average FT member: frequent flyer miles, lounges, etc.. come to the forefront of your mind when considering flying choices. I am not sure that this way of looking at things is representative of how most flyers approach the matter. |
A fare comparison
LONDON - DUBLIN, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow/City/Gatwick), cheapest return £73.21 (Heathrow) Fare: £20.00 APD: £13.00 Passenger Service Charge: £29.81 Irish Passenger S.C: £10.40 Total: £73.21 Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £78.21 RYANAIR (from Gatwick or Stansted), cheapest return £29.98 Total: £29.98 Pay by credit card: + £0.60 = £30.58 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LONDON - FRANKFURT, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC BA (from Heathrow/City), cheapest return £100.01 Fare: £20.00 APD: £13.00 PSC: £29.81 Germany PSC: £22.90 Germany Security Charge: £7.90 Germany Tax: £6.40 Total: £100.01 Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £105.01 RYANAIR (Stansted to Hahn): £39.98 Pay by credit card + £0.80 = £40.78 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LONDON - MADRID, 1st-8th DEC BA (from Heathrow and City, Gatwick codeshare), cheapest BA metal from LHR £90.41 but no HBO fares (So BA has one checked luggage for this route). Fare: £30.00 APD: £13.00 PSC: £29.81 Spanish departure tax: £13.90 Spanish Security Fee: £0.50 Spanish security Tax: £3.20 Total: £90.41 Pay by credit card + £5.00 = £95.41 RYANAIR (from Stansted), cheapest fare for the date chosen £63.73 Pay by credit card: + £1.27 = £65.00 *if you are flexible the cheapest return can be had for £33.98 or £40.18 depends on your flexibility EASYJET (from Gatwick and Luton, the cheapest departure from Luton and back to either airport), cheapest fare £49.98 Pay by credit card: + £0.49 = £50.47 NORWEGIAN (from Gatwick), cheapest fare £55.60 FARE: £11.20 TAXES and FEES: £44.40 (compulsory tax total £30.60, assume Gatwick charge £13.80) TOTAL: £55.60 Pay by credit card: + £1.10 = £56.70 So how BA is going to compete (as Alex Cruz the cutter said that BA need to face the competition from LCC) if BA can not match the price at all while actively lower its standard to or below the LCC competitor? And do not let me start with ONE WAY fares! |
Originally Posted by HIDDY
(Post 27287976)
The ones complaining the most are those who always have something negative to say about BA anyway.
In my case, I think I explained my typical reactions. I don't tend to boycott but find myself booking some airlines more or less. On my key routes I have recently booked more BA flights from LHR. However, at the same time, I have also booked two good value U2 returns from LGW. On this specific route, I had actually not bought any non-BA flight since the end of BD which is quite a few years ago. I have also booked two long haul J returns on AF and KL. You may think that it is unrelated but it is most definitely not - I would have certainly bought them on BA, say, a year ago. I will also buy some OS and LX long haul J returns as I have decided that it is unwise of me at this stage to let my *A G status lapse as I had planned to do next year. I have not had to book long haul Y flights since the new announcements so am genuinely unable to say what I'll do. I don't "compute" on choices but effectively trust what people would come instinct to effectively do the computing for me in the background, however imperfect that may be. |
Originally Posted by NickB
(Post 27288084)
I am not so sure. It might have been how people chose their flights 10/15 years ago. They would go onto ba.com (or ryanair.com, or easyjet.com, etc...) and book there without ever looking elsewhere. It seems to me that there is much more shopping around these days, not least thanks to aggregators such as kayak or skyscanner. If it weren't the case, there would not be such efforts by ba and others to attempt to raise their ranking on those sites/apps.
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Originally Posted by chongcao
(Post 27288116)
LONDON - FRANKFURT, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
... RYANAIR (Stansted to Hahn) |
Originally Posted by chongcao
(Post 27288116)
LONDON - FRANKFURT, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow/City), cheapest return £100.01 Fare: £20.00 APD: £13.00 PSC: £29.81 Germany PSC: £22.90 Germany Security Charge: £7.90 Germany Tax: £6.40 Total: £100.01 Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £105.01 RYANAIR (Stansted to Hahn): £39.98 Pay by credit card + £0.80 = £40.78 --- |
Originally Posted by orbitmic
(Post 27288179)
That's not really what I mean by automatic choices though, sorry If I was unclear. I'm not saying that people do not look at competition and always choose the same/shop the same/vote the same, but that they have a default vote/choice/shop. They may still go to ASDA when there is a special offer that interests them of vote Lib Dem if the Tory candidate is one is one they particularly dislike, but if everything else is more or less equal, they will revert to default until default is changed. Incidentally, default does not have to be a brand - so for instance it could perfectly be a default behaviour to choose "whatever is cheapest" and that too can change one they have landed at an airport 3 hours away from the city it's named after and they might decide that from now on it won't be "simply what's cheapest".
As regards flying, it seems to me that the "settled" contingent is smaller and things are for many people more open and less settled. If there is an automatism, it would be more like the kind of automatism there might be would be similar to that of picking up your favourite yogurt on the shelf. You might reach for it automatically but that will only last as long as nothing changes. If the flavour of your favourite yogurt changes and you do not like it, you will in all likelihood look at what else is on offer. Even that very thin automatism does not exist it seems to me among many flyers. Preference and strong or slight bias in favour: no doubt. Clearly, I would have a bias in favour of BA over U2 or FR but that does not stop me considering them and flying with them whereas the choice of yogurt would probably be more automatic and would not involve routinely considering alternatives. *: I know that you would be far more knowledgeable on this area than me so feel free to correct my misconceptions on political party affinities and electoral behaviour. |
Originally Posted by NickB
(Post 27288108)
:confused: Where in my original post did I make any arguments on the cost of public transport, etc...?
...As to LCC competition, my experience simply does not tally with what you describe. On my most regular route, LON-MRS, I can often get a return on FR for £40-60, one on Easyjet for £60-80. I will be very lucky if I find one on BA for less than £100. Yes, these are from different airports. But it seems to me that a large porportion of the London flying public is not tied to a particular airport. Sure, there will be preferences (I would prefer LHR over LGW over STN) but these does not mean that there is no competition between flights from different airports... I simply remarked that your price differential doesn't take into account the benefit of lounge access and a cheaper to get to airport (and later I said Avios and TP earning potential too). That's it. I'm finding hard to understand what the 'mistake' is that you say I've made :confused: Could it be that you made a mistake in saying that I made a mistake? :p |
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