Raffles

I wouldn't have run it if I wasn't 100% sure it was accurate and that people who I knew would know the truth were willing to confirm it, off the record. Which they did.

That doesn't mean it isn't a 'hot air' threat, but the existence of the threat is certainly real. I have zero interest in running anything which is not accurate and which would undermine my credibility. Getting an extra 1,000 page views today make no difference to me at all - it adds about 0.15% to the monthly total.

simons1

The only way we will know for sure is if a test case is brought. Finding it "hard to believe" and being legally enforceable are two different things.

On the railways it is quite acceptable to buy a return ticket and bin the return voucher. Also the courts may well take the view that if the passenger has paid for the flight then the airline has the money and it's up to the passenger whether their bum is actually on the seat.

I would have thought if the airline believed it had a good case it would have started enforcing this some time back (after all airlines don't often overlook an income stream). However the fact that there doesn't appear to be a single case of it being enforced makes me doubtful.

Paralytic

Apologies if you though I was suggesting it was not true, or fishing for additional hits. I was not.

What I was suggesting was that if BA's PR team wanted to put a dent in the use of these ex-EU fares, getting the UK's most popular FFP/rewards site to amplify a warning would be on the list of top 10 things to do.

One question on the article. These sentences were italicised. Were they direct quotes from your source(s), or just your emphasis? Its not clear.

If the final leg of your Germany to Hong Kong ticket is a few months after the Hong Kong to London leg, be aware. Your card is marked.

If you refused to pay their invoice, they would need to pursue you in court for the money and I doubt that they would want to risk a judgement going against them.

Wozza2404

Surely *if* BA have actually made such warnings, it's going to be aimed at smaller TAs who specialise in finding cheap deals? That way BA doesn't have to pay the commission on their already slim margins on these kind of itineraries, and it drives people to book them direct; where BA have (if nothing else) more options to record these travel patterns.

Oaxaca

Where did I say they were different? Read what I was commenting on.

Raffles

My emphasis, sorry.

Globaliser

But isn't there an assumption in that observation that things have been static? They may not have been.

The increasing effect of the ME3 (and others) may have meant ever keener promotional fares having to be offered ex-EU. And there may have been increasing take-up of these fares by UK residents over time. The combination of these two factors may have made BA more keen over time to ensure that if someone buys an ex-EU fare, they travel as bought rather than using it to travel over a more expensive journey.

henkybaby

Now, IANAL but it seems that BA sort of dug a hole for themselves. I know the eternal argument made is that you bought a product that provides travel between A and C (vv) and that a transfer in B does not make B a valid stopping or starting point. This is why on KL's cheapo tickets you can't include a stopover (just a transit < 24hrs).

Now BA allow a STOPover... That means that in essence they are selling tickets A-B-C (and C-B-A) where B has become a valid starting or stopping point. True, you can't start in B, but have to start in A but can they enforce taking the final leg ?

Is a ticket a 'right' to travel or an 'obligation' to travel ? Can BA ever compel you go on plane by threatening it will basically redefine your contract ?

The argument will no doubt be that BA will lose revenue if you don't fly the last leg. However that is not really true. BA lost revenue because you bought your ticket elsewhere.

Maybe BA should stop selling cheap ex-EU tickets with stopovers. It then becomes a contract A-C-A. In my mind there are still too many valid excuses to get off at LHR that will hold up in court easily.

Dave Noble

I disagree. I don't see why genuine purchasers of the journey should need to be adversely affected just to address those trying to game the system.

If BA does take action successfully against agents who have been promoting these actions, I don't see anything wrong

As far as passengers go, if someone has done it once, might be easy to argue that something outside of their control came up - if it is the 7th consecutive time, the credibility of such a claim would seem lacking

flatlander

BAEC can lock your account for auditing any time they like. Then it would be up to you to show that you had a good reason to miss the flight and they can take as long as they like to decide whether they think your excuse is valid. It's very easy for them to make your life very awkward if you rely on your BAEC account a lot (summer holidays with Avios, UUA a lot, lounge access with status, etc....).

BAEC is their trainset, their rules. There is little statute or case law on this sort of thing.

Personally I'd take this warning shot across the bows and scrupulously finish any ex-Germany trips.

henkybaby

Anyone know how this is enforced in OW explorer tickets where I know that missing the last sector is also a point of debate... ?

EDIT: Never mind, looked it up. As it says in the rules: you can cancel the ticket and receive a refund on the taxes. I assume the same is true for tickets ex-EU on BA. Cancel the ticket once you're back in London.

The only thing that BA can do (IMHO) is to refuse to carry you in the future.

Blueboys999

Doubt whatever this is will come to anything as has consistently been the case in the past.

If I was BA and really wanted to do something about this practice I'd amend the rules and only credit TP's & Avios on the conclusion of entire itineraries. They won't do it of course but that would put a lot of the fare gamers off.

UKtravelbear

Would be relatively easy to do and would have the advantage of not breaching any laws. Just a change in their T&Cs.

Sure some people would complain but as someone said earlier BAEC is their trainset.

Raffles

That's a good point. If you look at the 'premium fare sales' board on FT, the first question that comes up when someone posts a deal is 'can you do stopovers?'. Usually the answer is No.

What is slightly different here is that BA is actively encouraging (because it is specified in the fare rules) people to use these tickets to get to Singapore, Beijing etc as well as HK. However, they could still have written 'No stopovers in London'.

henkybaby

I have just read the conditions of carriage on BA and they specifically state that you can request a partial refund (in this case just taxes and surcharges) if you cancel your ticket mid-journey. This is different than changing your itinerary mind you.

You only need a valid reason if you request BA to refund the non-refundable part.