orbitmic

I think that all those answers confirmed an earlier point that "golden years" are in the eyes of the beholder and that different types of passengers have had "best years" at different points in time.

I do not think that there are many people for whom things are best now but there will be - effectively, to be a "winner" with the current system, you need to both be redeeming in economy AND accruing in flexible business/first class. I do not think many people are in that situation because typically, someone usually flying business/first also wants to redeem business/first and that ration has gone worse.

The "soft" aspects, are again very member-specific: sure, gifting cards is good if you have people around you who do not make status themselves, but then you lost "open doors" at the same time and many people used that a fair bit. And again, lower taxes on European flights are great for people redeeming that way but then the UUAs from WT+ have become far more expensive, etc.

It seems to me that things also depends on what people use. I am continental Europe based so I don't have Tesco points, I don't have a BA Amex, I don't have a Chase card, etc. It seems to me that the current offerings are actually better for people for whom BAEC is not predominantly about accrual through flying but about 2-for-1s, Amex points etc. By contrast, those who think of it as - well, a frequent flyer card have lost a lot of feathers in the past few months...

FrancisA

It is not really about returning to the mid-2000s - it is much more recent really: 2011 to be exact marked the significant reductions spending rates with the introduction of avios.

This thread announced it: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...ub-coming.html

Prior to that there had been changes that meant that you no longer needed to take a qualifying flight (which was flexible Y or any higher cabin) to join BAEC.

At some point a change was made to introduce full miles/avios and TPs for discounted Y fares (the 2011 announcement?).

There was also the introduction of 100% bonus for silver as well as gold (the 2011 announcement?).

From 2005-09 there were a lot of promotions to get people flying as the post 9/11 slow down, followed by banking crisis in 2008, meant passenger numbers were still well down on late 90s levels.

There was also a series of strikes which adversely affected BA specifically.

However, it was the merger with IB and the JSA with AA that really saw BA switch BAEC (briefly) into a more mass-market FFP.

Whilst many who jumped on board then are not happy now; there are also those who think BA does better if it does set its focus on premium cabins. If that is where it sees BAEC refocusing itself, that would be good news if BA similarly focusing on regaining ground against its natural competitors.

It cannot compete at the back against LCCs and in any cabin against the Gulf and Asian carriers; but it can give the best in Europe and North America a run for their money, if it gets its act together.

Let's hope (against hope) that the current changes mark a sea change in direction - a refocus on value rather than cost, quality rather than quantity, playing to your strengths and marketing your USP ...

... or perhaps we should place our faith in porcine aviation

orbitmic

I personally do not see a single sign of BA focusing on improving premium customers experience. Everything points out to cut cutting in that direction too.

And I personally do not agree with your distinction between older members who would be ok with recent changes and newer "mass FFP" members who would complain. This is simply not what we are reading on this forum. Many of us are unhappy after having been BAEC members for 15-20 years, and some people who have clearly only recently joined and are still of low status have been defending BA's approach.

Again, to me, it seems to mostly depend on individual features associated with geographical location rather than time of membership and I simply do not see the additional pattern of membership length that you do.

FrancisA

My opinion is more governed by the view what goes around comes around.

The changes BA made in around 2011 were beneficial to me, and I have lost from the recent changes. However, I always thought BA had got it wrong and it couldn't last.

The merger with IB, JSA with AA, take over of BMI and various bank run avios promotions meant there were simplify too many avios and too many people chasing very limited capacity, be it reward seats or room in lounges. In other words, that was not a sustainable position.

Factor in an improved economic climate where you can sell more revenue seats and the need to attract BAEC members in large numbers diminishes.

Whilst we can all moan about the negative impact of changes, let's not look at everything with rose-tinted glasses. Before the 2011 changes, I used to do MFUs from WT+ to CW two or three times a year. Those changes reduced the avios required on many routes from 25,000 return to 20,000. That would be good news, if there was ever any availability! My last UuA from WT+ was to SFO in 2011. Since then I have found ex-EU CW tickets with the occasional UuA to F a better bet.

Which brings us back to my original point, if you move back from something that doesn't work to something used to work, that is a real improvement. Those who have been around for a while know how it used to be; more recent members do not have that the benefit of that knowledge.

Of course, everything depends on your personal circumstances, but in forming an opinion, I would place more value on benefits I can actually get and use, rather than was is in theory on offer but in reality rarely attainable.

paulieuk

(If the link has worked...) Here's a copy of the BA Executive Club Handbook - circa 2000/1 (not sure of exact date, but the list of lounges includes the disclaimer on one of 'due to open December 2001').

It's from the era when:
- Status earned through Executive Club Points, not Tier Points
- Gold needed 1,700 ECPs to qualify, 1,200 to re-qualify
- WTP in 'T' class earned the same ECPs as WT
- Concorde to NYC earned 500 ECPs compared to 360 in First
- B and H fares (except B to BRU/RTM) only earned 25% ECPs
- Household accounts cost £25 to start
- Zone 1 redemptions (including EDI) cost 13,000 BA Miles
- Redemptions had to be booked >5 days online and >14 days by phone


https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...int=file%2cpdf

Globaliser

Things must be bad if they're having to cut the cuts as well as everything else!

IME, anyone who talks about a past Golden Age of anything (by way of comparison with a present that's perceived to be poor) is likely to be suffering from a poor or short memory.

orbitmic

Yes, but again, that is the premise that I simply disagree with. I do not think that BA is going back to pre-2011, nor even to pre-2005 or in fact to any other period of its existence. Returning to 25% TP on lowest economy and 50% bonus for silver is simply not - in and by itself - the sign of a return to the status quo ante. Many other things have changed (some for better, some for worse), both with regards to BAEC and to BA as an airline which make the current situation different from previous ones.

Another way of phrasing it is that whilst those of us who have indeed been BAEC members for a while do realise that it was not always the way it was in the past three years or so, it does not follow that we agree with your perception that we are now close to what it was before, which may very well make sense to your specific circumstances (when and where you joined, what aspects of membership matter to you or not) but does not necessarily "travel" for some of us who joined 20 years ago but either in a different place, or one or two years before or after, or value or worry about different aspects of the BAEC rules.

Apart from the many elements I and others have already mentioned, you can add:

On the FFP side...

- lifetime status
- vast increase in the sheer size of OW which probably does more to fill lounges and take away award availability than any changes to BAEC numbers themselves
- not being able to select seats on all fares
- increase avios circulation through non-flight earnings
- creation of the bronze tier
- monetisation of many privileges once reserved for elite pax (not least related to seating)
- segment based redemption which has multiplied redemption costs to anyone not based in London
- continuous inflation of taxes and surcharges associated with long haul redemptions
- worsened OW coverage of Europe following Malev's demise
- deterioration of the lounge experience

On the BA side:

- CW moving from top in class to back of the bulk
- F progressively overshadowed by most competitors
- progressive ending of non-London flights
- introduction of new uncomfortable seating on short haul flights
- more frequent sales
- change of baggage concepts from weight to pieces
- catering deterioration

We are simply not in 2005, 2007, or 2009 and in my view, there is really no reason to think that BA is going back there. I fully agree with you on the impact of better economic climate, and I really think that this is the only thing that there is to it. As for too many avios in circulation, this is not changing any time soon because again, much of it comes from non-flying accrual and transfer, and there is no point trying to regulate your own currency if partners are allowed to throw money by the bucketful which enables their members to buy your goods.

The main effects of current BAEC changes is simply about redistributing goodies from BAEC members to AA and others, and concurrently from a frequent flyer programme to a frequent buyer (of other companies) programme, neither of which was a feature of the status quo ante.

SchmeckFlyer

I read several comments claiming the scheme is better today because, partly, more miles and tier points can be earned than in the past. This fails to fully appreciate that while mileage accrual has become rampant, approaching hyperinflation levels in my humble opinion, the ability to actually use all those miles has deceased drastically. What's the point of being a millionaire if one can barely buy a loaf of bread?

In 1998 I had one of my first redemptions while still a pubescent teenager. I flew alone with miles from Seattle to Harare and back. The preferred flights in February were booked in December. The grand total of the fees came to $18.06. This was in Club, cradle seats IIRC. These days redemption availability is so poor I have all but given up trying, literally unfortunately. So yes, I have hundreds of thousands of miles in my BA and KLM and various other FFP accounts. But precious little chance to actually use them.

FFPs have become monetised like everything else in the industry. Soon they will charge for oxygen.

Raffles

One thing we dont mention here is the expansion of oneworld. Over the last 3 years it has brought, primarily, Qatar redemptions into play which is a great addition. Also Malaysia, SriLankan and airberlin, home of the £1 tax US to Europe flight (which I have done).

Peter M

I would argue that the end of the Golden Age of BAEC was marked by the introduction of the Bronze status. Imagine all those new card holders happy faces when they opened the envelopes, and now imagine the smile being wiped off their faces when trying to find a redemption, or finding a redemption and seeing the high cost. BAEC giveth and it taketh, with a hint of a sadistic satisfaction obviously.

Raffles

I did an interesting article on historic sweet spots recently, albeit with Hilton: http://www.headforpoints.com/2015/05...ll-good-value/

There was a point two years ago where the stars collided, although no-one knew it. 50 per cent Tesco to Virgin bonus (now 20 per cent), Virgin to Hilton at 1:2 (now 2:3) and Conrad Maldives at 50,000 Hilton (now 95,000).

Net result was you could have got £10,000 of Maldives holiday for £533 of Tesco vouchers. Today you would need £1,688.

Note, though, that £1,688 of Tesco to get £10k of Maldives beach villa (300 sq m) for 10 days is not exactly a bad deal.

Tim1975

I joined BAEC in 2001 when I got my first proper job and realised I'd be flying with franchisee Brymon BRS-EDI every week.

On board service was great - booze, hot meal, cup of tea in 40 minutes flight time. Bristol airport was lovely before Easyjet moved in and it became a crowded shopping centre. Edinburgh was very easy, I'd be on the bus into down within 10 minutes of landing.

EC points were woeful. I did about 40 returns and got something like 4,000 points and no status. My first credit card was the fre BA Amex which I signed up for to boost my points balance, but still didn't have enough flights for a free trip.

greg5

I did get 5 or 10% discount on flights though the company's TA. I ended up crediting to AS, where I got full miles for awhile, then it went to 25%, and I went off to SK and crediting to UA. On SK I ended up earning enough for *A Silver, and even got an Op-up to Y+ once. BA had already reduced the pitch to 31 inches, and SK stayed with 32 for a good while afterwards.

I was just looking at an old email:

Did you actually have to book a flight 3 months in advance to use BA miles?

CMK10

My Mom was BA Silver in the mid-1990's, I think she still has the luggage tag around somewhere. She was flying JFK-LHR in Y and her flight was cancelled. They ended up rebooking her on the Concorde. Now that was service.

simons1

Has there ever been a 'Golden Age'?

Looking back I was a gold member for about 8 years up to 2005 when we switched business to another supplier. For at least 3 of these years I maintained status through a weekly commute to Europe using the cheapest Y fares I could find. You could argue the economics of marginal income but I doubt on a costed basis BA made any money from me. Imagine, I even enjoyed using the BA lounge when travelling with a competitor.

I don't really remember those years as golden although it was perhaps easier to find redemption flights.

I've never understood why BA don't try focus more on the true premium clients ie the people that spend serious money and generate profits. Instead it seems they have spent too long in recent years trying to be all things to all men resulting in the situation where virtually everyone seems to get priority boarding, the lounges are crowded to capacity etc etc.