shorthauldad

Thanks ^ for sharing this

KARFA

Having looked at a chart now I am surprised!.

So KJFK has the following runway pairs:

• Runway 04L-22R 11351' x 150' asphalt
• Runway 04R-22L 8400' x 200' asphalt
• Runway 13L-31R 10000' x 150' asphalt
• Runway 13R-31L 14572' x 150' asphalt

Looking at a 2011 chart I can only see CAT III plates for 4R and 22L so only one runway in effect is ever theoretically available for CAT III landings (i.e. full autoland in very low visibility) as only one of 4R/22L could ever be in use at one time, and it is the shortest runway of the lot at 2560m! To put that runway length in to context it is nearly as short as LBA's at 2250m which has a reputation for not being a particularly long runway.

So crap CAT III capabilities indeed for a major airport! Also to contrast that with LHR, all four runways (9L, 9R, 27L, & 27R) are CAT III.

Now if anyone can understand and fill us in on the relevant NOTAMs?

Prospero

Jumbodriver, this is fascinating and alarming. Much more interesting than my own armchair musings too. It would be great if you could elaborate.

paul4040

I'm surprised at JFK's poor ILS facilities.

It appears that the captain had pre-decided that in the event of a missed approach he would divert to PHL, due to the risk of another failed approach at JFK, eating up more reserves. Would I have that right?

KARFA

To be fair if there was a PatentTalk website I don't think I would ever go on as all I would find were a lot of armchair experts second guessing everything I or my colleagues did based on their "expert" patent knowledge which they picked up 5 minutes ago from wikipedia! However, I am glad that at least some BA staff are brave enough to come on here and post.

greg5

deleted

HMPS

Well I say that when I see a name or a person on a newscast......till me wife reminded me that it is OK. S/he does not know me either !

KARFA

Your link doesn't work, could you copy the text in?

greg5

I had deleted it. Here it is, or the page it was on anyways. But there is this as well, which might be better.? BTW, anyone know if the datestamps are UTC?

KARFA

Yes, I found the same but I admit I can't read NOTAMs. I can just about tell which ones relate to ILS for the relevant runways but I can't tell what dates and times they are covering.

shorthauldad

For those that don't speak NOTAM, even Wikipedia says "Temporarily closed for construction" next to 4R–22L, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F....infrastructure

and

http://gothamist.com/2015/02/26/jfk_runway_bye_bye.php

EDIT: Q: if you know this is coming, what preparations (if any) do you make as a pilot or indeed airline?

Swanhunter

Rather sobering to read just how badly equipped JFK is. My understanding is ATC there isn't well regarded either.

While BA are getting plenty wrong at the moment I do have confidence in their crews and flight operations people to make the correct, safe, call.

simons1

If true being the operative phrase there.

As others have pointed out Flightaware appears to show a number of loops prior to landing, plus the pilot tells ATC "we need to route directly to Philly this time".

Jumbodriver

The ILS 22L is Cat 1 only. Until May 18th.

22R/04L are completely closed so using 04R for arrivals is something they would hate to do. They'd rather risk some go arounds from 31R. The problem arises when you hold long haul aircraft for a long time and then give them an approach to a Cat 1 only runway in marginal weather.

You clearly aren't assured of a landing at JFK, So if you don't have enough fuel for another approach, followed by a diversion and still land at diversion with reserve fuel, then you have to divert straight away. It's fairly clear there was a plan B (more likely F or G) that they put into action straight after the go-around.

We have no knowledge of customs hours on the flight deck.

LondonElite

I don't want to play armchair quarterback, but fuel running low after one aborted landing, flying LHR-JFK, with not enough for a go-round? Doesn't sound right to me.

As mentioned upthread, PHL-Manhattan by train is a piece of cake, even late at night.