Is the second BP scan at T5 Fast Track Security a stats scam?
Feb 3, 2015, 12:20 am
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Given the current data collection method, the following would be measured as a 5-second connection security queue:
If that's indeed the case, I think this belongs in the fraud category.
If that's indeed the case, I think this belongs in the fraud category.
Last edited by hillrider; Feb 3, 2015 at 12:25 am
Feb 3, 2015, 12:25 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
As BasilBush points out, the earlier attempt to monitor queueing times was a botch, easily manipulated by the airport: in essence statistics were not continuous and could be collected under favourable conditions. The secondary scan is an attempt to remedy this, measuring time taken from entering the system to reaching the processing point: it might be flawed in its execution, but it's a bit strong to call it a scam.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
Feb 3, 2015, 12:28 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
As BasilBush points out, the earlier attempt to monitor queueing times was a botch, easily manipulated by the airport: in essence statistics were not continuous and could be collected under favourable conditions. The secondary scan is an attempt to remedy this, measuring time taken from entering the system to reaching the processing point: it might be flawed in its execution, but it's a bit strong to call it a scam.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
That part is definitely a scam IMHO. It is in the airport's control, as would be its (very welcomed) removal, which they might end up doing if they have to pay for its customer inconveniencing.
Feb 3, 2015, 1:05 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
Good to know the regulator is doing such a great job on our behalf.
Feb 3, 2015, 1:26 am
#20
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: England
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold, UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 389
How is the current system any different? Waiting 20 mins for a secondary inspection isn't even 'detected' by any monitoring, so HAL can throw resource at the part of the queue that is monitored, and ignore the bit(s) that aren't.
Good to know the regulator is doing such a great job on our behalf.
Good to know the regulator is doing such a great job on our behalf.
But rather than complaining on here, fire off an email to the CAA. Every time you see a queue ahead of the first BP check, or you see non- status pax being redirected into Fasttrack, or pax being redirected from North to South security (or vv). Their email is [email protected]
Feb 3, 2015, 1:33 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dunoon, Hong Kong & Milton Keynes
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 87
On Friday, there was a very polite person who at the secondary scan took your boarding pass, scanned it for you and then directed you to a free bay. The chap in front of me refused to hand over his boarding pass and was told it was mandatory. I also refused asking what it was for and they could not tell me, so I just walked to the next empty bay.
It is a bit like Boots or WHSimths asking for my boarding pass, its all about collecting (unnecessary) data.
It is a bit like Boots or WHSimths asking for my boarding pass, its all about collecting (unnecessary) data.
Feb 3, 2015, 2:06 am
#22
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: YYZ/LHR/SFO/SIN
Programs: AC SE100K
Posts: 282
For Boots/WH Smith I always decline, but I usually give a lame excuse like it's with my partner or at the bottom of my bag. I should probably just tell them that I don't want to be tracked.
Feb 3, 2015, 3:41 am
#23
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: IHG Spire Ambassador, Club Carlson Gold, HHonors Gold, Best Western Diamond Select, BA Blue
Posts: 1,335
On a related note, there is a BP scanner just before each of the metal detectors at T5 security (cattle-class security).
I'm not talking about the BP scanner when you enter the security area where your picture gets taken and the gates open to let you through - I'm talking about the area where you put your coat and bag/laptop etc into a tray just before you ealk through the metal detector.
Right there is a BP scanner. Is this what you guys are talking about? What is it there for?
I'm not talking about the BP scanner when you enter the security area where your picture gets taken and the gates open to let you through - I'm talking about the area where you put your coat and bag/laptop etc into a tray just before you ealk through the metal detector.
Right there is a BP scanner. Is this what you guys are talking about? What is it there for?
Feb 3, 2015, 3:43 am
#24
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,972
On a related note, there is a BP scanner just before each of the metal detectors at T5 security (cattle-class security).
I'm not talking about the BP scanner when you enter the security area where your picture gets taken and the gates open to let you through - I'm talking about the area where you put your coat and bag/laptop etc into a tray just before you ealk through the metal detector.
Right there is a BP scanner. Is this what you guys are talking about? What is it there for?
I'm not talking about the BP scanner when you enter the security area where your picture gets taken and the gates open to let you through - I'm talking about the area where you put your coat and bag/laptop etc into a tray just before you ealk through the metal detector.
Right there is a BP scanner. Is this what you guys are talking about? What is it there for?
Feb 3, 2015, 5:32 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,586
As BasilBush points out, the earlier attempt to monitor queueing times was a botch, easily manipulated by the airport: in essence statistics were not continuous and could be collected under favourable conditions. The secondary scan is an attempt to remedy this, measuring time taken from entering the system to reaching the processing point: it might be flawed in its execution, but it's a bit strong to call it a scam.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
The statistic of interest to the regulator is queuing time, not time in the inspection system.
Queueing time is largely under the control of the airport and is a service quality measure adopted by the regulator; processing time is passenger specific and modulated by rules set by a third party.
As it stands, the system doesn't measure this at all. Meaningless. What a steaming pile.
Feb 3, 2015, 5:39 am
#26
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 740
Time to start carrying those old boarding passes. Should make for some interesting statistics.
Feb 3, 2015, 5:44 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
We need to organise a FT conga:
First FTer arrives at LHR, goes through conformance, scans BP, refuses to scan your BP at the second scanner. Heads for flight, emails BP to next FTer.
<4h later>
Second FTer arrives at LHR, goes through conformance, scans BP, scans first FTers BP at the second scanner, heads for flight, emails second BP to third FTer
<4h later>
Third FTer arrives at LHR...
Feb 3, 2015, 9:23 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: IHG Spire Ambassador, Club Carlson Gold, HHonors Gold, Best Western Diamond Select, BA Blue
Posts: 1,335
Exactly, that's where it needs to be - near the customer satisfaction machine where you register your happiness/disgust with T5 security.
Feb 3, 2015, 9:43 am
#29
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 7,543
I'd say it should be right at the point you exit the scanner - before you get pulled aside for secondary searching. That way, everyone is measured on the how long it took to be scanned, rather than to be cleared which can indeed be outside HAL's control.
Feb 3, 2015, 9:51 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,586
Putting it out there would be open to abuse though - passengers could wander off to Boots for a while and then pop back to scan their BP.
I'd say it should be right at the point you exit the scanner - before you get pulled aside for secondary searching. That way, everyone is measured on the how long it took to be scanned, rather than to be cleared which can indeed be outside HAL's control.
I'd say it should be right at the point you exit the scanner - before you get pulled aside for secondary searching. That way, everyone is measured on the how long it took to be scanned, rather than to be cleared which can indeed be outside HAL's control.