Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

BA award booking (First), flight cancelled, no point refund?

BA award booking (First), flight cancelled, no point refund?

Old Aug 30, 13, 8:32 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta Diamond, AA EXP, US Platinum, VA Gold, Starwood Platinum 75, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 247
BA award booking (First), flight cancelled, no point refund?

Need help here on how to proceed. Here's the scenario:

A few weeks ago, I booked a one-way ticket in First from MSP-EWR using Avios. The flight was on AA metal. I was called a few hours before the flight letting me know of cancelation (pretty standard) and I was rebooked on another AA flight (also standard). The flight they booked me on; however, was MSP-ORD-NYC (forget which airport) but only the second segment in First. In either case, flight would get me in too late (next AM), so I requested they put me on a DL flight that was getting in that night. Hour of annoying calls later, they did.

However, the flight was in economy and I was never told I would lose all of the paid Avios (don't think would have been different if I had kept the flight they offered). I took the flight (got DL credit by pushing them to get me in Y), and on the backend saw no credit from BA. In my mind, I had a canceled flight, was booked in First and flew economy back (and at a worse time!). Hence, not even counting inconvenience, I should be due back 22.5k-7.5k = 15k Avios for the difference between First and Economy. This has fallen on pretty deaf ears and BA just recently responded to a tweet of mine and after a fight offered back 10k stating:

"Thank you. Normally we are unable to offer a refund in these situations but we have re-credited 10,000 Avios to your account as a gesture."

Needless to say, this doesn't seem appropriate and I'm not content. Moreso, not content as I don't want goodwill written on my account (I want to save that for another time).

Thoughts? Is this reasonable? Other way to proceed?
A5Globetrotter is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 9:13 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BOS, LAX
Programs: AA EXP MM, UA Plat, SPG Plat
Posts: 3,877
I think that on paper, you are due the Avios refund in full. I also think that on paper, BA could have told you to go pound sand when you asked to be endorsed onto Delta.

Consequently I think 10K is a fair compromise.

I do recall a thread with a similar issue a while back, not 100% how it was resolved.
DWFI is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 9:19 am
  #3  
IMH
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: BA Gold, Accor & IHG Plat, Meliá & HH & Marriott & Radisson Gold
Posts: 4,767
Originally Posted by A5Globetrotter View Post
Thoughts? Is this reasonable?
This is probably not what you want to hear but yes, I think it probably is.

If you'd insisted on staying in F you'd have been able to -- but probably wouldn't have been able to travel until the following day (because most flights inside 24 hours don't have any spare F seats due to upgrading practices in the US).

It sounds as though AA was very flexible in working with you to find an acceptable alternative: they paid another carrier and you reached your destination on the day you needed to. You accepted that and, in doing so, accepted the downgrade.

Getting downgraded to Y: annoying. Getting where you needed to be: more important. Getting DL miles and 10,000 Avios: ding ding ding.
IMH is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 9:23 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,878
Presumably AA as operating (and cancelling) carrier endorsed you to DL. (??)
You travelled coach, paid first, a refund is due. Simple.
Tafflyer is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 9:53 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta Diamond, AA EXP, US Platinum, VA Gold, Starwood Platinum 75, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 247
BA award booking (First), flight cancelled, no point refund?

They didn't endorse it, I pushed. But is there really any way the customer service team now would know that? If they didn't offer and I pushed for it, does that change the expectation?

Edit: they executed it, but didn't offer it to me as an option until I requested it.
A5Globetrotter is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 10:08 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,878
Originally Posted by A5Globetrotter View Post
They didn't endorse it, I pushed. But is there really any way the customer service team now would know that? If they didn't offer and I pushed for it, does that change the expectation?

Edit: they executed it, but didn't offer it to me as an option until I requested it.
Well, they should have put you on DL in first. If this was not available, which I assume due to the flock of status pax that would have been given upgrades at T-24, then you are due the fare difference back. Since the ticketing airline was BA, than they have to do it. No difference if it was cash, miles, Avios, points or any other means of payment. If you don't get anywhere, I would advise you to complain to the DOT. http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
Tafflyer is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 10:22 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Programs: BAEC/IB
Posts: 37,768
As you refused the alternative routing offered then it could be said they did what they had to do and you also refused the other option of being refunded in full instead of pushing for the flight on Delta.You did get to your destination and got 10,000 Avios refunded which might be better than what you might actually be entitled to.

Bit of a grey area and would be good to know the exact rules.
HIDDY is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 10:31 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 36,050
Originally Posted by A5Globetrotter View Post
They didn't endorse it, I pushed.
"Endorsed" in the sense of made your ticket valid for use on another airline. But it's common to have to push a bit to get an airline to re-route you onto another airline, for reasons which are obvious.

At the end of the day, you technically took (indeed, insisted on) a voluntary re-route/downgrade so that you could get where you needed to get to, and that was facilitated by waivers of the ticket conditions by the operating airline. One could argue endlessly about this; you might be right and you might be wrong, but in the end there's only 5,000 Avios in it! Like DWFI, I think that you might regard this as a fair compromise.
Globaliser is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 11:44 am
  #9  
IMH
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: BA Gold, Accor & IHG Plat, Meliá & HH & Marriott & Radisson Gold
Posts: 4,767
Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
in the end there's only 5,000 Avios in it!
Even less if we give some value to the 2,500 or so Delta redeemable and qualifying miles that OP will have earned as a DL Platinum member.

OP got what he requested on the day -- a flight to the desired destination arriving the same night plus DL miles by "pushing them to get me in Y". He/she also got 10,000 Avios. I'd say it's time to see that as an acceptable outcome and move on.
IMH is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 12:57 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ/YTZ/YUL
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite
Posts: 1,467
I would say that BA should refund the full amount, and often are far too reluctant to do this when they downgrade. On the other hand I would also agree with those who say that 5k avios aren't worth it.
TravellingSalesman is offline  
Old Aug 30, 13, 1:08 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 36,050
Originally Posted by TravellingSalesman View Post
I would say that BA should refund the full amount, and often are far too reluctant to do this when they downgrade.
Although in this instance, BA didn't do any downgrading. It was ultimately the passenger who insisted on being both downgraded and re-routed (onto a different airline), because that was what was needed to get where they needed to go. And it wasn't even triggered by anything that BA did; it was the operating airline's cancellation.
Globaliser is offline  
Old Aug 31, 13, 8:01 am
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta Diamond, AA EXP, US Platinum, VA Gold, Starwood Platinum 75, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 247
BA award booking (First), flight cancelled, no point refund?

Was it unreasonable to expect a flight that would get me in that night (given that there were others still live)? (ie, should I not be penalized for a normal request?)

If I had taken the original flight they offered, was I still entitled to compensation given that only one leg was in first?
A5Globetrotter is offline  
Old Aug 31, 13, 8:08 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA IHG
Posts: 1,364
Originally Posted by A5Globetrotter View Post
If I had taken the original flight they offered, was I still entitled to compensation given that only one leg was in first?
You'd probably owe BA more miles since they price per segment
cmcbugg is offline  
Old Aug 31, 13, 8:19 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 36,050
Originally Posted by A5Globetrotter View Post
If I had taken the original flight they offered, was I still entitled to compensation given that only one leg was in first?
I still think that the answer is: Maybe, maybe not; but you could only have got a maximum of 15,000 back, and you've had 10,000 back plus a slug of DL miles too - so is this discussion about high principle really worth the electrons?
Globaliser is offline  
Old Aug 31, 13, 8:20 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA EXP, 2MM lifetime Platinum, Expedia +gold +++
Posts: 1,253
It seems like a voluntary downgrade to me. They AA flight you were on wasn't flying; you and two options:

A) Take the next AA flight with reward seats available in F
B) Take a voluntary downgrade and get to your destination in time

You chose option B, so the Avios and SkyPesos are icing on the cake.
FAA1996 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread