Save Concorde Group Proposes "Return to Flight"
May 23, 2014, 6:34 am
#61
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,240
I don't understand the argument that people don't need to be in the same place at once due to the internet. Demand, including business demand, for transatlantic travel is strong, and, if anything, people's schedules are more packed today than ever. I'm sure that there is demand for business (and leisure) travellers to get to their destination quickly. The issue is cost - but if the pricing point was, say, a 35% premium on a J ticket then I think it would work. Especially if they could somehow get it out of LCY!
May 23, 2014, 6:57 am
#62
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,656
The cost of building another supersonic passenger aircraft will remain astronomical for the forseeable future, and the cost of a J ticket would have to have a 35,000% premium for it to be economical. I doubt it will happen in the lifetime of anyone posting on FT today, despite all of the "son of Concorde" stories which appear in the press every so often accompanied by an artists impression of how it will look.
And I agree; Concorde will never fly again. It is an ex-aircraft. Bereft of life it rests in peace. It's pushing up the daisies. That bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it.
Aug 30, 2014, 1:33 pm
#63
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1
Hi Guy's
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
Graham
Heritage Concorde - www.heritageconcorde.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ConcordeHC/
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
Graham
Heritage Concorde - www.heritageconcorde.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ConcordeHC/
Aug 30, 2014, 5:47 pm
#65
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,641
Unfortunately, after a promising start, SCG squandered much goodwill (both in terms of knowledge and also in potential offers of financial assistance).
Its focus was on return to flight (RTF) at all costs.
No consideration was given to the business case for a sustainable enterprise after RTF, or the stepping stones of preservation and education which would possibly have built a groundswell of support to continue the basics like ground checks and servicing which might have made RTF realisable in the longer term.
In many ways it was foolhardy to pretend to be credible, when in fact they are far from that. In summary, all talk, no action.
While Return to Flight is now an impossibility, there remain opportunities for improving preservation as well as broadening the educational possibilities Concorde represents - after all, it's a decade since she flew, and a generation have no concept of what Concorde was all about.
I would hope that SCG would focus on these possibilities, particularly given the challenges faced by the Vulcan. I doubt SCG will set its sights on an achievable target, still peddling the myth of RTF.
Heritage Concorde has these more realistic aims, and a top website to boot:
http://heritageconcorde.com/
Its focus was on return to flight (RTF) at all costs.
No consideration was given to the business case for a sustainable enterprise after RTF, or the stepping stones of preservation and education which would possibly have built a groundswell of support to continue the basics like ground checks and servicing which might have made RTF realisable in the longer term.
In many ways it was foolhardy to pretend to be credible, when in fact they are far from that. In summary, all talk, no action.
While Return to Flight is now an impossibility, there remain opportunities for improving preservation as well as broadening the educational possibilities Concorde represents - after all, it's a decade since she flew, and a generation have no concept of what Concorde was all about.
I would hope that SCG would focus on these possibilities, particularly given the challenges faced by the Vulcan. I doubt SCG will set its sights on an achievable target, still peddling the myth of RTF.
Heritage Concorde has these more realistic aims, and a top website to boot:
http://heritageconcorde.com/
Aug 30, 2014, 10:24 pm
#67
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: AA EXP/LTP, BA GGL/CCR/GfL, HH D/LTD, SPG/MR Plat/LTP
Posts: 10,077
Hi Guy's
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
Graham
Heritage Concorde - www.heritageconcorde.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ConcordeHC/
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
Graham
Heritage Concorde - www.heritageconcorde.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ConcordeHC/
Aug 31, 2014, 3:33 am
#69
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Graham - I've been looking at your site for the last few hours. Fantastic! It's like taking an alcoholic to a tour of the Krug cellars!
It brings back such happy and bittersweet memories of flights on these aircraft, the last being on Alpha Delta in June 2003.
It brings back such happy and bittersweet memories of flights on these aircraft, the last being on Alpha Delta in June 2003.
Aug 31, 2014, 5:21 am
#70
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,679
Hi Guy's
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
I don't really go on many other forums other than our own FB forum for reasons of time limitations. I spotted this thread a while ago and I would like to thank you for the support of our group.
If you want technical reasons why Concorde won't fly then we have a few (sorry to all the pro RTF guys but if you can answer these objectively then ok.
1. OEM parts are not available - most of the company's who manufactured parts for Concorde do not exist or have moved on to other things, saying that use of parts off other aircraft will not do because the parts need to be certified.
2. The Seals inside the fuel tanks will have dried out by now, these are an integral part of the structure of the wing I am told by our engineering colleagues that this almost certainly has occurred.
3. The hydraulic lines inside Concorde DO contain dried M2V hydraulic fluid, the system can not be flushed because no fluid will flow through the lines they are completely blocked. I have spent the last 14 months removing dry M2V from the lines and valves inside Concorde's nose systems. To do this for the entire aircraft to flight standard is nigh on impossible. I will post photo's of this issue on our FB forum if anyone is interested, just join and ask.
I could go on to include lack of qualified engineers, pilots, airframe, money and paperwork.
Hope this helps
Aug 31, 2014, 5:55 am
#71
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold, Carlson Gold Elite, Accor Platinum, SPG Gold, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 273
Interesting thread. I'm disappointed at the aggression in some of the posts, as well as the many unqualified "Concorde will never fly again" statements.
Especially those statements centred around the airframe or other "components" issue. These are easily manufactured. Hell, give me a drawing, a block of Duralamin, a seventy year old vertical milling machine, and I'll cut you anything to a tolerance of a thou (inches). I'l even de-grease and paint it for you. Any other components can be manufactured by any competent engineering person or company; there is nothing esoteric from a technical point of view.
Hell, it's not impossible to upgrade any of the systems or avionics either. There are much better fly-by-wire systems available than the old Analogue FBW in use with Concorde. It just needs re-engineering. In fact you could strip virtually everything out of the plane, leaving just the structure and replace old for new. Difficult, but not impossible.
There is no reason to put down a group of (some would say) idealists; there's no harm in campaigning.
As a former Aeronautical Engineer (British Aerospace, Military Aircraft Division) there is NO technical reason why Concorde will never fly again.
The reasons why not are ONLY financial and practical. Would it make commercial sense? No. Would it be a complete pain in the backside to do? Definitely.
Somebody needs to want to do this enough to back it. Is this improbable? Yes.
Is it impossible? No.
Should a group of people give up on this? Hell no. Good for them.
Especially those statements centred around the airframe or other "components" issue. These are easily manufactured. Hell, give me a drawing, a block of Duralamin, a seventy year old vertical milling machine, and I'll cut you anything to a tolerance of a thou (inches). I'l even de-grease and paint it for you. Any other components can be manufactured by any competent engineering person or company; there is nothing esoteric from a technical point of view.
Hell, it's not impossible to upgrade any of the systems or avionics either. There are much better fly-by-wire systems available than the old Analogue FBW in use with Concorde. It just needs re-engineering. In fact you could strip virtually everything out of the plane, leaving just the structure and replace old for new. Difficult, but not impossible.
There is no reason to put down a group of (some would say) idealists; there's no harm in campaigning.
As a former Aeronautical Engineer (British Aerospace, Military Aircraft Division) there is NO technical reason why Concorde will never fly again.
The reasons why not are ONLY financial and practical. Would it make commercial sense? No. Would it be a complete pain in the backside to do? Definitely.
Somebody needs to want to do this enough to back it. Is this improbable? Yes.
Is it impossible? No.
Should a group of people give up on this? Hell no. Good for them.
Aug 31, 2014, 6:57 am
#72
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,679
Interesting thread. I'm disappointed at the aggression in some of the posts, as well as the many unqualified "Concorde will never fly again" statements.
Especially those statements centred around the airframe or other "components" issue. These are easily manufactured. Hell, give me a drawing, a block of Duralamin, a seventy year old vertical milling machine, and I'll cut you anything to a tolerance of a thou (inches). I'l even de-grease and paint it for you. Any other components can be manufactured by any competent engineering person or company; there is nothing esoteric from a technical point of view.
Hell, it's not impossible to upgrade any of the systems or avionics either. There are much better fly-by-wire systems available than the old Analogue FBW in use with Concorde. It just needs re-engineering. In fact you could strip virtually everything out of the plane, leaving just the structure and replace old for new. Difficult, but not impossible.
There is no reason to put down a group of (some would say) idealists; there's no harm in campaigning.
As a former Aeronautical Engineer (British Aerospace, Military Aircraft Division) there is NO technical reason why Concorde will never fly again.
The reasons why not are ONLY financial and practical. Would it make commercial sense? No. Would it be a complete pain in the backside to do? Definitely.
Somebody needs to want to do this enough to back it. Is this improbable? Yes.
Is it impossible? No.
Should a group of people give up on this? Hell no. Good for them.
Especially those statements centred around the airframe or other "components" issue. These are easily manufactured. Hell, give me a drawing, a block of Duralamin, a seventy year old vertical milling machine, and I'll cut you anything to a tolerance of a thou (inches). I'l even de-grease and paint it for you. Any other components can be manufactured by any competent engineering person or company; there is nothing esoteric from a technical point of view.
Hell, it's not impossible to upgrade any of the systems or avionics either. There are much better fly-by-wire systems available than the old Analogue FBW in use with Concorde. It just needs re-engineering. In fact you could strip virtually everything out of the plane, leaving just the structure and replace old for new. Difficult, but not impossible.
There is no reason to put down a group of (some would say) idealists; there's no harm in campaigning.
As a former Aeronautical Engineer (British Aerospace, Military Aircraft Division) there is NO technical reason why Concorde will never fly again.
The reasons why not are ONLY financial and practical. Would it make commercial sense? No. Would it be a complete pain in the backside to do? Definitely.
Somebody needs to want to do this enough to back it. Is this improbable? Yes.
Is it impossible? No.
Should a group of people give up on this? Hell no. Good for them.
Aug 31, 2014, 12:55 pm
#73
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold, Carlson Gold Elite, Accor Platinum, SPG Gold, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 273
I care not for anyone here who thinks they know any TECHNICAL reason why Concorde cannot fly again. If they are better informed, than I have seen and know no reason to disprove this.
This thread is logically impaired.
Aug 31, 2014, 1:25 pm
#74
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,667
Aug 31, 2014, 1:27 pm
#75
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