Drug the children. Hit the children. Can this debate sink any lower?

My thoughts exactly. Shows the type of society we've become - we can't solve our problems, so we resort to drugs and violence.

I've always drugged my kids when flying, didn't hurt them and made everyone's life easier while flying. They haven't suffered at all. Ivy league graduates...antihistamine was great.

I said to my 5 year old niece when she was having a particularly big tantrum, and her parents were being useless - "Oi love - there's only room for one loud attention seeking princess and I was here first"

She was so shocked she shut up instantly.

The world sighs in relief that I won't ever had children.

The attacks you are getting are telling and not a little perverse. "You are selfish to complain when I disturb other people in a public place. I have every right to do so and you have no right to object!" And then you're the one being selfish. Nice.


It won't be for lack of effort; thanks for your contributions.

You forgot "5. Protestations of shock and horror from old-timers at how a discussion in this forum could ever have sunk to such a horrifying and depraved level, followed by announcements that one is leaving this thread (or even the forum) forever!"

Then they watch intently for more replies http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ile_tongue.gif

How is it perverse to object to what was said by MNManInKen? If he was merely talking about boorish ignorant and selfish adults (which I have come across on many flights) then he would have everyone's universal agreement. If he was talking about children aged 5 and up he would have the agreement of the majority on here. He feels that parents should not be able to take their children on holiday so that he won't be disturbed. That is what I call perverse.

Like it or not, when you travel on any form of public transport (and disregard the snobbery that surrounds first and business class travel on planes, they are still public transport) you have to share the space with other members of the public. many of them will have habits you don't like. Some will be noisy, some will be smelly, some will be rude, some will be all three. But that is the risk that one takes when one goes by public transport.

Of course people should be considerate to the people around them. Like I said earlier, however, in 5 years of flying long haul overnight flights I can't remember EVER being woken up by children, crying or otherwise. I would estimate, however that I am disturbed on 30% of nightflights by inconsiderate adults. A 7 month old baby knows no better. The adults that disturb me certainly should.

I think it is entirely reasonable that a parent should be allowed to take a holiday and take their children with them. Provided they make every effort to pacify their baby should the infant is upset, then they are doing their part.

The solution for the noise is simple: earplugs and/or noise cancelling earphones. When I have been disturbed it is by a man in his 50s kicking the back of my UD seat, there is no way of shutting it out. It is however part and parcel of travelling on public transport no matter how annoying it is.

there is absolutely nothing more British about a debate on how children should be seen and not heard and everyone getting a bit tense about personal space.

All we need are some scones and TMS on the wireless in the background. Magic.

+1 to both the posters. We just might get enough material to shoot a movie titled " Some men behave like children, when talking about children "!

You are most welcome.

I believe the US is unique, or at least in a small group, in the prevalence and social acceptance of medicating children (and adults for that matter). I wouldn't choose to do this myself. That said, every parent has to make an informed choice for their own family and I respect your right to do. I think this is very different from non-parents suggesting that anyone with children should feel obligated to give drugs to their kids to sedate them for flights. That's ridiculous.

I would point out for anyone considering this that there are always risks of dangerous side-effects to any medication, and that some children in fact have the opposite reaction to sedatives, i.e. it makes them hyperactive instead of calm.

I'll be flying to Newark on the 14th in First with my wife and 21-month old daughter. She'll be sat in 1K with me.

She doesn't generally get upset to the extent that she would become annoying to others so I think the only people she could potentially irritate would be those that find children irritating fullstop.

No drugs please we're British.

I've seen this seldom: some intolerant self centered individual ends up sitting next to a infant/child he starts enquiring whether he can be seated fruther away, look anguishly and awaits for the moment he will finally hear the baby cry so that he can justify his angst and begin his vicious cycle of: I paid x for a premium ticket and I need to profit from it, I pay so much attention to the potential noise that might disturb me that I hear it much more than anyone else ...I then start blaming the parent for putting me through this...this raises my stress level...and then the only thing I can focus on is the crying baby..etc...Always funny to observe but it should be no concern whatsoever to you.

If it was not for you, something else would make these miserable individuals unhappy.

The irony is it is those very whiners that complain on a crying baby

It's the egg. Something that was not a chicken laid an egg from which the first chicken hatched. QED

There's several counter-arguments to this:
1. A key chicken protein, ovocleidin-17, which helps in the formation of the egg's hard shell, developed after the evolution of the original chicken species. It's possible before this time that there were proto-chickens with non-egg reproduction.
2. You can argue there was not an arbitrary chicken/non-chicken threshold but a gradual evolution of both chicken and egg meaning that neither can be said to exist before the other.
3. Finally there is the creationist argument that God planted chickens on the Earth like geraniums and said "Let There Be KFC".