ANNOUNCEMENT - A new revitalised Executive Club is coming
Sep 5, 2011, 8:59 am
#766
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: Latinpass Million Miler. BA Gold.
Posts: 3,544
They certainly covered their a**, as they always do - that is why they pay a lot of money to their lawyers. However, did they not promise 6 months notice and are giving just 2 1/2?
In any case, that is exactly why I had said earlier that it is not illegal, just morally wrong. Maybe your schedule is flexible enough that 2 1/2 months is enough notice for you; for others it may not be the case, for any number of reasons (previuosly booked/non cancellable trips, no more vacation time, etc, etc).
However, it is what it is and we all will have to move on. With the exception of S. America and stopovers, BA was never a real bargain when compared to AA redemptions anyway. Even the much touted routes from NA to Asia are a better deal on AA in F (67.5K on AA vs 75K on BA); ditto from Oz to US. The fuel surcharges made it even worse and now with the new redemptions table likely, it's really time to move on.
In any case, that is exactly why I had said earlier that it is not illegal, just morally wrong. Maybe your schedule is flexible enough that 2 1/2 months is enough notice for you; for others it may not be the case, for any number of reasons (previuosly booked/non cancellable trips, no more vacation time, etc, etc).
However, it is what it is and we all will have to move on. With the exception of S. America and stopovers, BA was never a real bargain when compared to AA redemptions anyway. Even the much touted routes from NA to Asia are a better deal on AA in F (67.5K on AA vs 75K on BA); ditto from Oz to US. The fuel surcharges made it even worse and now with the new redemptions table likely, it's really time to move on.
No they didn't promise 6 months. They say they will use reasonable endaevours. As our corporate lawyer always says - I will not accept a contract that says "reasonable endeavours" because it means they will do zilch.
Sep 5, 2011, 9:03 am
#767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: Latinpass Million Miler. BA Gold.
Posts: 3,544
Wow I feel really cheated. As a North American customer, living on the West Coast, I value the NA-asia at 50K miles. Especially as there is no/low fuel surcharge on Cathay.
(Does anyone realize the taxes/surcharges come to $900 for a flight YVR-LHR return!!!!)
I feel like my 350k remaining miles are going to be totally devalued because the new rate for asia will be at least 60K, if not 70K? (YVR-HKG is 6344 miles. We know LHR-HKG is 5944 miles and 60k, so does anyone know which is more likely?)
Overall I feel cheated and obviously I need to find a new card and stop earning BA miles until at least things settle down.
Very disappointed.
I wish someone COULD launch a lawsuit, but unfortunately I'm sure it's in their terms and conditions etc etc etc. But it certainly does not create good will towards the airline, and I tell you I certainly won't be flying BA/oneworld anymore if I can fly Star Alliance. Ridiculous.
(Does anyone realize the taxes/surcharges come to $900 for a flight YVR-LHR return!!!!)
I feel like my 350k remaining miles are going to be totally devalued because the new rate for asia will be at least 60K, if not 70K? (YVR-HKG is 6344 miles. We know LHR-HKG is 5944 miles and 60k, so does anyone know which is more likely?)
Overall I feel cheated and obviously I need to find a new card and stop earning BA miles until at least things settle down.
Very disappointed.
I wish someone COULD launch a lawsuit, but unfortunately I'm sure it's in their terms and conditions etc etc etc. But it certainly does not create good will towards the airline, and I tell you I certainly won't be flying BA/oneworld anymore if I can fly Star Alliance. Ridiculous.
Sep 5, 2011, 9:04 am
#768
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Hague, NL
Programs: GMLFL, Life 2.0 - Mucci Premiere Classe & des Chevaliers Toulousiens
Posts: 22,911
Sep 5, 2011, 9:09 am
#769
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
Just another "minor" deception (they don't really matter - do they?)- we'll try to give you 6 months' notice but in reality we will give you only 2 1/2.
Sep 5, 2011, 9:12 am
#770
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
I'm not a lawyer and whenever I sign contracts at work I never accept contracts with response times or similar that have a 'best endeavours' clause because they are worthless. I'd have thought this was obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense.
BAH
Sep 5, 2011, 9:23 am
#771
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
In other words, don't bother reading the T&C in the first place, because, in the end, they are meaningless anyway. They can sc**w you one way, or another.
Obviously, you feel that I don't have an ounce of sense, but I do know when to quit; and that time is now.
Cheers
Sep 5, 2011, 9:25 am
#772
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 9,034
No, it means read them and understand them. And if they say "reasonable endeavours", assume that clause will not be honoured
Sep 5, 2011, 9:33 am
#773
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
I don't know you well enough to make that assessment, but from your posts here I do think you have a distorted image of what BA's FF program will provide. I'm not familiar with US programs so can't comment if BA's is atypical compared to US norms and hence this is why your expectations seem out of kilter.
Always the sign of good sense, though, is to realise when you have to abandon ship (as it were). But it does seem to me you're abandoning ship prior to the iceberg even being sighted...
BAH
Always the sign of good sense, though, is to realise when you have to abandon ship (as it were). But it does seem to me you're abandoning ship prior to the iceberg even being sighted...
BAH
Sep 5, 2011, 9:51 am
#774
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
IF, and it's a big IF, BA moves to a "distance from origin redemption rate for North American partner rewards it will be radically out of kilter with its partner AA which has a flat rate for redemptions wholly within North America. Even if BA moves to dividing the US into 2 or 3 zones and charges different rates between various city pairs it will be out of kilter.
It's also out of kilter in things like access to make redemptions only during East coast office hours.
Overall, BA doesn't look much like a world player - it feels more like some two bit parochial European operation. Perhaps it's time to finally change the name to London Airways and quit the pretense?
Edited to add : why not throw in the much promised and never quite delivered ability to upgrade Travel Agent tickets which US carriers have supported for years.
Last edited by bernardd; Sep 5, 2011 at 9:56 am
Sep 5, 2011, 9:58 am
#775
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
In some respects, for example fuel surcharges, BA has imposed conditions which are wildly at variance with the norms of the market in which it's operating. It's also out of kilter in areas like restrictions on redemptions and even changes in the 24 hours before departure, though most of the US carriers charge "close in" fees.
With regard to fuel charges, that is very much a European 'norm' and BA is, primarily, a European player.
IF, and it's a big IF, BA moves to a "distance from origin redemption rate for North American partner rewards it will be radically out of kilter with its partner AA which has a flat rate for redemptions wholly within North America. Even if BA moves to dividing the US into 2 or 3 zones and charges different rates between various city pairs it will be out of kilter.
It's also out of kilter in things like access to make redemptions only during East coast office hours.
Overall, BA doesn't look much like a world player - it feels more like some two bit parochial European operation. Perhaps it's time to finally change the name to London Airways and quit the pretense?
It's also out of kilter in things like access to make redemptions only during East coast office hours.
Overall, BA doesn't look much like a world player - it feels more like some two bit parochial European operation. Perhaps it's time to finally change the name to London Airways and quit the pretense?
I would say, though, that your view of BA is a peculiarly American one...from over here the US players (with perhaps the exception of Continental) are universally derided for having poor hard product and surly service (although, to be fair, BA can be hit and miss on the service front too). And don't even get me started on the dreadful lounges provided by American carriers. Some are so bad over there the communal areas of the airport seem a positive haven of luxury...
BAH
Sep 5, 2011, 10:02 am
#776
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
I would say, though, that your view of BA is a peculiarly American one...from over here the US players (with perhaps the exception of Continental) are universally derided for having poor hard product and surly service (although, to be fair, BA can be hit and miss on the service front too). And don't even get me started on the dreadful lounges provided by American carriers. Some are so bad over there the communal areas of the airport seem a positive haven of luxury...
Sep 5, 2011, 10:11 am
#778
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
The concept of boarding from the "Lounge" was nice ... but the "Lounge" and it's facilities were cramped and abysmal. Somewhere at the top end of the B-Gates on the left ... my diary suggests it was NorthWest [whatever happened to them? <rhetorical>
]
Sep 5, 2011, 10:25 am
#779
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Just a quiet reminder that Nicci has just said something about this, and I don't think it would be fair to keep banging on about it at the present time.
Sep 5, 2011, 10:39 am
#780
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
Sorry, I disagree. 2 1/2 years after it was promised, and we're still getting "reasonable endeavours"? Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted. Anyway, my harping on about this is apparently like water off the proverbial.