arir

Hi everyone,

I MFU from Club to First and then there was an aircraft change (no First) and i was downgraded to Club.

How will this work? Will i be offered the same as a paying First passenger or will i just be offered miles back or nothing at all?

Has this happened to anyone in the past?

pomkiwi

You should get the miles you used to MFU back with no problem - if not then phone BAEC. They may not give you anything else as they may take the view that in the end you received what you had originally paid for.

lorcancoyle

Don't believe the can get away with just refunding miles - supposed to be a percentage of what you paid, which should be your cash fare plus the miles used. Might not stop that approach being tried of course... (or you may prefer the 100% miles refund of course, so you could argue for that if you wanted).

stifle

Unless your flight was entirely outside the EU (SIN-SYD, for example), you ought to be given back 50% or 75% of what you paid for the flight (the CW fare plus the miles, separately), depending on whether the flight was under or over 3,500km. I don't see why an MFU downgrade would be treated differently than any other invol downgrade.

I suspect BA's first offer will be to refund all the MFU miles, perhaps plus a little more; it'll be for you to decide whether that is acceptable or whether to make a counteroffer.

Flying Doctor

As others have said it is 50% or 75% of the fare depending on the length of the sector.

I suspect that they will try just to give you the miles back but you are entitled to the above.

FD.

HIDDY

Can it be classed as a downgrade in the usual sense of the word when no F cabin was operating I wonder? They could have just cancelled your ticket, given a refund then issued a new one in CW to get round that rule....if it applies. I expect you to be offered the difference in miles between F and CW.

Do let us know how you get on.

martinfoss

Not that this applies to me, but i'm just curious if I've understood this correctly:

I I book, let's say a CW ticket between LHR and JFK, and MFU myself both ways. Let's say I pay 20.000 NOK for the ticket, and the CW-to-F milage (don't know, to be honest)

Would i then get back 50%/75% of the 20K NOK and all of the miles, or is it 50%/75% of both the money and the miles?

I would have been more than happy enough with getting my miles back, to be honest, and no money. I would still travel in CW, and thatwould have been what i had paid for.

IAMORGAN

See Art. 10 Reg. 261/2004 E.C.

A downgrade is a downgrade. Your ticket price comprises of your cash CW fare and your MFU. You should get the appropriate downgrade compensation, on a strict construction. Quite how BA is to pay your miles in accordance with Art. 7 (3), i dont know. IMHO it's very poorly drafted.

ManAtTheBack

A refund is at the passenger's choice, not the air carriers. The air carrier would be required to pay compensation AND provide alternative transportation "under comparable transport conditions"

Rgulation (EC) 261/2004

"Article 5
Cancellation
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers
concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2),.. and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier
in accordance with Article 7, unless [adeqate notice is provided]:

Article 8
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
be offered the choice between:
(a) � reimbursement within seven days, by the means
provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket
at the price at which it was bought, for the part or
parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts
already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel
plan, together with, when relevant,
� a return flight to the first point of departure, at the
earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience,
subject to availability of seats.

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
receive compensation amounting to:
(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than
1 500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1 500
and 3 500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b)."

pauldb

Be careful what you wish for.

Personally I think this is unfortunate but I think a refund of the miles (and perhaps an offer to cancel and refund the whole ticket) is perfectly reasonable. Or perhaps a move to the next flight with F (in line with the EU cancellation rules ... no compensation is due if this is 2 weeks out).

If the OP insists on a 75% refund per the EU rules then BA might decide to put him in Y!

LeisureFirst

I don't think it is at all reasonable. The situation is a bit more obvious, I think, with an MFU from WTP to CW, but the principle is the same.

Suppose I pay �800 plus 25,000 miles for a CW return to New York (as I quite often do, give or take �100). Then I have a contract with BA for exactly that, and I consider that I've paid a fair price for a service I want, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the ticket.

It does not follow that I would have been willing to pay �800 for a WTP return to New York. I most certainly wouldn't. I don't think it's worth it, and I don't do Y (or premium Y) long-haul. Even if the ticket were free I probably wouldn't take the flight. That is my decision and however much BA can sell a WTP seat for is irrelevant. BA can't just change the terms of the contract, give me back 25k miles, and tell me that I've happily bought a WTP return from them for �800 - something I would never choose to do.

Similarly, suppose I pay �800 for a nice 46" LED Television and then, when it comes to delivery time, the shop discovers it's oversold them. So it decides to deliver a 30" television worth (in its mind) �350 instead and refund me �450. Can it do this? No it can't, because I don't want a 30" television, I want a 46" one. The argument that 'the 30" television will get you from A to B, which is primarily what you paid for' just won't wash.


As I read it, the OP has already taken the flight. If not, he might be well-advised to do so before claiming compensation. And if BA have changed the flight and given him reasonable notice, then I don't think he can expect much compensation at all - the 75% refund rule wouldn't apply.

pauldb

OK I think you're probably right that the flight has occurred, which does mean the OP's options were restricted and BA should be more generous, or more penalised if that's how you look at it. But in general...

For some MFUs you do initially book the WT+ for the price advertised, and then upgrade it. So you were willing to pay for �800 WT+ with a little uncertainty whether you'd be able to upgrade. Even upfront MFUs are technically "Book with cash, upgrade with miles" which might get lawyers arguing if you say you never bought the cash ticket.

How about you bought a 40" TV for �700 but before it arrived a 46" was on sale at �800 so you paid �100 extra. But they couldn't fulfil the order. Should they give you the 40" TV and a �600 refund (75% of �800)?

stifle

I've never tried it, but I thought when you MFU-ed at booking time you never actually had a WTP seat, just a CW one.

Flying Doctor

I am not sure that I agree that you bought WT+ and then upgraded. I would not view it like that - I wanted to travel in J and I used a combination of methods of payment for this. If the upgrade had not gone through then I would cancel the ticket - which you are entitled to do irrespective of the restrictions on it as they do not come into force for the initial 24 hours after purchase. It is therefore an involuntary downgrade - there is a contract both ways - and I would be looking to be compensated as per the regulations. I would not accept just a refund of the miles - I have plenty of them and this would be pretty irrelevant for me.

FD.

NA-Flyer

On which route that incident occurred ?