New F but terrible young crew on LHR-ATL
Jul 17, 2011, 1:29 pm
#46
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by Can I help you View Post
I'm surprised that one of the many mixed fleet crew that used to post and that were so interested in "Being Outstanding" no longer contribute, I wonder why?
I'm surprised that one of the many mixed fleet crew that used to post and that were so interested in "Being Outstanding" no longer contribute, I wonder why?
Because they have been told not to.
Last edited by bealine; Jul 17, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Jul 17, 2011, 2:20 pm
#47
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Nothing wrong with having a moan here, as long as you back it up with an actual complaint to BA.
Young, inexperienced crew that are waiting to get a better job, coupled with a 3-day training course that covers Club and First. Senior crew get 2 days. They then get thrown onto their first longhaul flight and good luck with it.
I'm afraid the impression I get is that the company don't want to know, as long as they are meeting their cost-saving targets. Would love to be proved wrong. Culture on Mixed Fleet from senior management down is "stop complaining and get on with meeting your targets". Shame.
Young, inexperienced crew that are waiting to get a better job, coupled with a 3-day training course that covers Club and First. Senior crew get 2 days. They then get thrown onto their first longhaul flight and good luck with it.
I'm afraid the impression I get is that the company don't want to know, as long as they are meeting their cost-saving targets. Would love to be proved wrong. Culture on Mixed Fleet from senior management down is "stop complaining and get on with meeting your targets". Shame.
Last edited by Jimmie76; Jul 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Jul 17, 2011, 2:28 pm
#48
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I think we should simply give it some time and allow them to earn their wings, so to speak. That being said we should communicate to BA that it is obvious that the MF crews have not been trained adequately and that this has a negative impact on brand value. I don't think it would be good to complain about the crews themselves (i.e. on a personal level) since I am pretty sure that they did not get up in the morning thinking "I wonder how I can ruin my passengers' flight today?". Everybody wants to do a good job, that is in their nature, but they do need to be handed the tools to do so.
Jul 17, 2011, 2:43 pm
#49
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I do not believe that any of the F crew were purposely doing a bad job. They just did not know what they were doing or when to do it. Our flight attendant smiled and you could tell she was trying, but perhaps she needed to earn her wings with a couple of years in economy first. Etihad also has a problem with promoting inexperienced crew member to First Class positions without the proper experience or training. That is not to say all inexperienced crew members cannot do a good job, but the hallmark of a good First Class will always be personalized service and attention.
Jul 17, 2011, 2:46 pm
#50
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I'm not entirely clear on when MF started up - how long have they already had to get their act together? From conversations I've had with CC I understand the turnover among MF is rather high. Hopefully we are not heading into a situation where they are perpetually inexperienced.
Jul 17, 2011, 2:46 pm
#51
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MF was established during the strike period.
Jul 17, 2011, 2:46 pm
#52
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Personally I don't think that any crew should be learning on our customers who have paid in good faith for a good experience and I don't just mean MF crew.
I feel for the MF crew, they are not to blame.
I feel for the MF crew, they are not to blame.
Jul 17, 2011, 4:25 pm
#54
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Jul 17, 2011, 4:38 pm
#55
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So are all mixed fleet crew newbies? If so, it does seem a risky strategy not to have experienced crew keeping an eye on them.
Jul 17, 2011, 4:47 pm
#56
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I also feel for the Mixed Fleet crew as they are not to blame.
A good First Class crew are like swans, they appear serene and calm but underneath, they are paddling away like mad. It is not an easy cabin to work in when you first start after your training but in the past, crew have always had the more experienced crew to guide them. This is not the case with Mixed Fleet and time, I fear, will not make them better, if they have no experienced crew to learn from.
You do need to pass your experience back to BA, in order that they realise that there is a problem.
The new senior crew on Mixed Fleet ( called CSMs instead of CSDs) are being paid a bonus for their performance and are therefore not inclined to let BA know of these problems for fear of it reflecting on them.
I hope that these problems do get sorted out because it is not fair for people to pay a lot of money and not receive a great service and in time it may damage our brand.
Not all Mixed Fleet are new, some are junior crew from other fleets moving to Mixed Fleet for promotion and some of them are the CSMs and some are experienced crew from other airlines, however the vast majority are completely new to BA, some with previous airline experience and some with no experience.
Having said all that though, this customer did receive great service on his outbound flight and I imagine that that crew must have been Mixed Fleet also, unless it was more than a month or so ago.
A good First Class crew are like swans, they appear serene and calm but underneath, they are paddling away like mad. It is not an easy cabin to work in when you first start after your training but in the past, crew have always had the more experienced crew to guide them. This is not the case with Mixed Fleet and time, I fear, will not make them better, if they have no experienced crew to learn from.
You do need to pass your experience back to BA, in order that they realise that there is a problem.
The new senior crew on Mixed Fleet ( called CSMs instead of CSDs) are being paid a bonus for their performance and are therefore not inclined to let BA know of these problems for fear of it reflecting on them.
I hope that these problems do get sorted out because it is not fair for people to pay a lot of money and not receive a great service and in time it may damage our brand.
Not all Mixed Fleet are new, some are junior crew from other fleets moving to Mixed Fleet for promotion and some of them are the CSMs and some are experienced crew from other airlines, however the vast majority are completely new to BA, some with previous airline experience and some with no experience.
Having said all that though, this customer did receive great service on his outbound flight and I imagine that that crew must have been Mixed Fleet also, unless it was more than a month or so ago.
Last edited by Littlegirl; Jul 17, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Jul 17, 2011, 5:00 pm
#57
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So is there an expectation that perfect service (which I hope BA are aiming for) can be acquired by learning on the job? Considering the apparent lack of training and on the job monitoring ( as I expect lack of experienced crew supervision means more mistakes will go unnoticed), at the end of the day I see a two track service offering developing at BA. This is exacerbated by the reportedly high churn in MF, which means the inexperienced:experienced ratio will be higher than that with the traditional crew set up.
I'm not too sure if this has been successful at some airlines, but I see it as a recipe for an inconsistent offering unless eventually the crews will mix.
This is also written after my first MF flights this week. I flew AMS-LHR-AMS this weekend, and thought it was a standard 40 minute flight, with some subtle differences. This included: gum chewing, no paper napkins handed out with drinks (both flights), drinks service very delayed and chaotic, with many missing items on the trolley resulting in two rushed trips back tothe galley, no choice between sweet or savoury snack (my partnes was given a biscuit to go with his tomato juice), and most annoyingly-a steward who was yellling at all passengers when asking them for their order. This was not just yelling over the other passengers, it appeared to me to be a lack of manners. All these points are minor and won't turn me away from BA, but give me a worse impression of BA than previous flights. And the purser did not seem to take notice of any of it. He was also rather loud as he was coming down the aisle collecting 'trash'.
Originally Posted by henkybaby
I think we should simply give it some time and allow them to earn their wings, so to speak. That being said we should communicate to BA that it is obvious that the MF crews have not been trained adequately and that this has a negative impact on brand value. I don't think it would be good to complain about the crews themselves (i.e. on a personal level) since I am pretty sure that they did not get up in the morning thinking "I wonder how I can ruin my passengers' flight today?". Everybody wants to do a good job, that is in their nature, but they do need to be handed the tools to do so.
I'm not too sure if this has been successful at some airlines, but I see it as a recipe for an inconsistent offering unless eventually the crews will mix.
This is also written after my first MF flights this week. I flew AMS-LHR-AMS this weekend, and thought it was a standard 40 minute flight, with some subtle differences. This included: gum chewing, no paper napkins handed out with drinks (both flights), drinks service very delayed and chaotic, with many missing items on the trolley resulting in two rushed trips back tothe galley, no choice between sweet or savoury snack (my partnes was given a biscuit to go with his tomato juice), and most annoyingly-a steward who was yellling at all passengers when asking them for their order. This was not just yelling over the other passengers, it appeared to me to be a lack of manners. All these points are minor and won't turn me away from BA, but give me a worse impression of BA than previous flights. And the purser did not seem to take notice of any of it. He was also rather loud as he was coming down the aisle collecting 'trash'.
Jul 17, 2011, 5:01 pm
#58
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Mixed Fleet started operations in November 2010.
That vast majority of Mixed Fleet crew are new to BA, some are new to longhaul aircraft, some are new to the concept of premium cabins, or new to flying full stop.
Although applications were open to existing BA crew on other fleets, the company knew it would get relatively little interest from experienced crew due to the vastly inferior terms and conditions - so they have relied on a mix of experienced and inexperienced crew/recent students from outside BA.
Recruitment is geared towards spouting out the right "key" words rather than any attempt to gauge experience or sincerity ... so unfortunately we are seeing a lot of questionable talent coming through.
CSMs (senior crewmembers) are being overloaded with paperwork and ground duties of questionable value - to such an extent that many spend more time on the ground than in the air. On some occasions the crewmembers they are supposed to be supervising know more about the service routines than they do.
The results are inevitable, in my opinion. Whilst a lot of crew are very keen to please, they lack crucial experience, yet they will be promoted rapidly ahead of their vastly more experienced colleagues on other fleets, many of which provide excellent service and are very keen for promotion.
Unfortunately, this has an impact which is especially felt in First; but it doesn't matter, because BA are saving pots of money with these new crew.
Interestingly, with two new types of aircraft to join the fleet, plus three fleets of crew at LHR, none of which can fly with each other due to contractual issues, I do wonder how long it will be before BA decides to merge at least two fleets for the sake of scheduling flexibility; I don't see Mixed Fleet existing in its present shape or form in 3-4 years.
That vast majority of Mixed Fleet crew are new to BA, some are new to longhaul aircraft, some are new to the concept of premium cabins, or new to flying full stop.
Although applications were open to existing BA crew on other fleets, the company knew it would get relatively little interest from experienced crew due to the vastly inferior terms and conditions - so they have relied on a mix of experienced and inexperienced crew/recent students from outside BA.
Recruitment is geared towards spouting out the right "key" words rather than any attempt to gauge experience or sincerity ... so unfortunately we are seeing a lot of questionable talent coming through.
CSMs (senior crewmembers) are being overloaded with paperwork and ground duties of questionable value - to such an extent that many spend more time on the ground than in the air. On some occasions the crewmembers they are supposed to be supervising know more about the service routines than they do.
The results are inevitable, in my opinion. Whilst a lot of crew are very keen to please, they lack crucial experience, yet they will be promoted rapidly ahead of their vastly more experienced colleagues on other fleets, many of which provide excellent service and are very keen for promotion.
Unfortunately, this has an impact which is especially felt in First; but it doesn't matter, because BA are saving pots of money with these new crew.
Interestingly, with two new types of aircraft to join the fleet, plus three fleets of crew at LHR, none of which can fly with each other due to contractual issues, I do wonder how long it will be before BA decides to merge at least two fleets for the sake of scheduling flexibility; I don't see Mixed Fleet existing in its present shape or form in 3-4 years.
Last edited by Bar Operator; Jul 17, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Jul 17, 2011, 5:11 pm
#59
Join Date: Jul 2011
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That's not good at all FoHA and chewing gum is quite disgusting and this is not the first time I have heard this. It is totally against the rules.
The in-charge crew member on a Mixed Fleet flight is called a CSM, whether it is a longhaul flight or a shorthaul flight.
Mixed Fleet do not have any Pursers, even on their longhaul flights. They just have the one in-charge crew member (the CSM) on all the aircraft.
On the WW aircraft they have two Future Talent Main crew members, who are main crew being coached to become CSMs.
The in-charge crew member on a Mixed Fleet flight is called a CSM, whether it is a longhaul flight or a shorthaul flight.
Mixed Fleet do not have any Pursers, even on their longhaul flights. They just have the one in-charge crew member (the CSM) on all the aircraft.
On the WW aircraft they have two Future Talent Main crew members, who are main crew being coached to become CSMs.