LeisureFirst

I think that depends when you are based. My Asia-based (Singapore and Hong Kong mainly) colleagues regard BA as pretty much the airline of last resort.

BA is still one of the leading TATL airlines, but doesn't seem to have the clear water ahead of the competition that it used to have.

I've been asked to do it in the premium check-in area (thsoe were the days) at LHR T1.

Anyway, it was an interesting OP. I remember not long ago people used to rave about how wonderful Schipol was as a hub. Were they raving mad, or have things there changed?

Jenbel

It used to be fantastic - absolutely the best and easiest transfer airport in Europe, and for me, it still ranks up there as one of the best - however, the crossing between Schengen/non-Schengen is a pain (although UK -> rest of world is still pretty seamless) and has split the airport. Security has varied between pretty much none at all to security at the entrance to the piers to the current security on each gate.

In summary I'd say that anything non-Schengen at AMS is easier than a transfer at T5 which involves international -> domestic. However T5 domestic -> international is now easier than Schiphol, due to not needing to go back through security.

millionmiler

Absolutely false. Indian Airlines has regional international routes.

Swanhunter

Having done both this year, I have a hunch your hunch will be right. BA's offer on Band 3/4 flights is pretty sad.

continentalclub

And to be fair, folks also felt the same way about BD Premium Economy. Other carriers simply couldn't hold a candle to it.

Unfortunately, neither could BD (apparently) make any money out of it and they weren't strong enough themselves to force the competition to raise their game.

As lamentable as CE service specification can be, if I was drawing up a wish-list that included long-term route sustainability and reliability, I'd be a brave man were I to suggest emulating BD products.....

Phil the Flyer

That's easy, I've got three for starters - punctuality, schedules and equipment (at least on the route I have recently flown bmi on instead of BA: CAI-LHR).

When I flew BD on 25 May the flight departed CAI 2 hours late, I see tonight it has departed 4 hours late; if it's lucky it'll make LHR around midnight!! That's always going to be a problem for BD when they only schedule approx one hour turnaround time in CAI, compared to BA's approx eight hours. Any outbound delay is not so easy to absorb inbound for bmi.

The fact that bmi's flights arrive into and depart CAI at peak road traffic times doesn't help. In comparison BA's flights into and out of CAI mean a less than 30 minute drive in either direction between the airport and my apartment on the Corniche overlooking the Nile.

As for comparing a BD A321 against a BA 744 - no contest!

G-BOAC

PtF - well, yes, of course! CAI is a "longhaul" BA route! I was talking about the mid-haul comparisons like DME where a BD would offer a very refreshing change to CE (not CW...though the food would be a close call to CW frankly) for most people. On time both ways and the schedule seemed OK to me. I can't understand why more people wouldn't fly BD on that route over BA given the vast hard and soft product gap I experienced. I think Smirnoff once mentioned brand/prestige as one reason, though I can't remember if schedule was a factor too to be fair. Price doesn't seem to be it either (see below).

continentalclub - it is a fair point that BD aren't exactly in rude health and therefore an ideal model to copy...though I'd love to understand exactly why that is? Superior product and a quick EF check on for random dates in future shows their cheapest (J) fare is actually 50 quid cheaper than BA's (D)...their economy is cheaper too. Doesn't add up IMHO, and a real shame for BD. A product like that deserves to succeed IMHO. But then w.t.f. do I know, I seem to have abnormal expectations or decision making criteria where aviation is concerned It's just nice to see a bit of quality still out there now and again though!

Phil the Flyer

That hasn't stopped BD replacing an A330 with an A321 on the route at the end of March 2010.

Having flown BA, BD and MS between the two subject airports over the past six weeks I'm afraid it's:

1st = BA (744)
2nd = MS (777-300)
3rd = BD (A321)

firstclasslad

BA is very consistent, in product and service, a good airline, with great products through out cabins.

In my opinion, it beats most airlines apart from some Asian, Middle Eastern and Oceania.

It's one of the best in Europe, Africa, N + S.America, mainland China (that's alot of the world).

I still think Virgin's business class ground + onboard product is better than BA's Club World. This is understandable, considering Virgin must out dot CW product to survive on BA's routes. Other than that, BA does still stand out, and on certain routes and certain cabins, I will continue to fly them.

continentalclub

Perhaps you need more fingers for the adding .

It's understandably strange that BD don't do better when one compares the service itself, and the fares charged, on a purely retail O&D basis.

However, as soon as one factors in corporate deals (which given its restricted network simply can't be as comprehensive as BA's) and it begins to become clear that bmi hasn't got the same customer base as the larger company.

Add in general network connectivity and bmi is really starting to look like it's on the back foot; if I needed to get to DME from almost anywhere in the UK regions, then LH is usually cheaper and has far better connections. From EDI, for example, an airport that is still served by BD, the average travel time to DME is 10h-plus on BD. It's under 8 with BA and can be less than 7 with LH.

The same goes for Southern European start-points, if not even more so; there is no BD service for them and only *A connections into LHR from LIS, (I think, no?) So if you want *A you'd go via FRA or VIE or ZRH, I assume, and if you wanted OW then you're probably back to BA, unless you're in (or well-connected to) MAD and want to pay the IB direct fare.

And, of course, there's no US-originating traffic on BD metal anymore, so a BA-BA T5 transfer looks pretty appealing from that side of the pond too. Indeed, VS actually load exNYC fares that connect to BA, as well as to bmi.

Finally, though we may know where Diamond Club's sweet-spots are, the majority don't and we, of course, benefit enormously from that fact .

So, if you add the whole thing together, I have to say that I'm still not completely surprised that the product itself on a 4h flight isn't enough to drive the market.

G-BOAC

All very good points. Much like BA, I tend to forget the regions

RedMark

As the OP is also a BD Gold he could have went BD and probably got the same standard of service as KLM but a seat block and a decent haul of miles

pacer142

Don't know about LHR, but I have not seen it required recently.

(note that while I am indeed in Flying Blue as per my profile, I'm not frequenting AMS at the moment...)

Neil

NickB

This is due to BD, under LH ownership, not renewing leases on A330s for highly understandable reasons (have a gander on the BD forum for the gory details).

It is difficult to make any meaningful comparison given the profound differences in product. BD has a mid-haul product (ex-BMed style) in addition to short and long-haul. Internationally, BA only has a short-haul (ET/CE) and a long-haul (WT/WT+/CW/F) product. On those routes, like CAI, where BA offers a long-haul product, it beats the hell out of BD mid-haul product. On those routes, like DME, where BA offers a short-haul product, this is reversed.

You cannot extrapolate general judgments about the respective merits of the airlines based on a single route where they offer substantially different products.

continentalclub

See my post above about connections though; every single KL flight from EDI connects to TXL in under 4h10m.

BA connections (under normal operations) are between 4h15m and 5h35m.

The best that BD can manage, departing 06:30 is 4h40m, and that arrives into TXL an hour later than KLM gets you there, having left EDI at 06:05.

The worst BD connection (ie taking the first available onward connection after a given arrival at LHR) is 7h40m.

No surprise then that KL does rather well from the regions.