jmd

Hello everyone. As you've probably noticed, I'm new here, so herewith a lengthy (and somewhat opinionated) burst to get the conversational juices going. As a Brit Mid customer of long standing (ex DC*G, now DC*S) I can't help feeling that they have been suffering from an identity crisis since the BMI rebrand. The old Brit Mid advertising strapline ("the airline for Europe") sums up what they used to be - a business oriented domestic and European airline with an accent on cheerful and efficient British customer service (something that the 'Midland' element used to conjure up, for me at least). Since the rebrand (epitomised by the new name, which they were forced to admit stands for, errm, nothing), BMI don't seem to be able to make up their minds as to whether they want to compete with the low cost carriers, or whether they want to be a serious European business player. In competing with the LCC's, they are stuck between two stools, as their fares are generally much higher, but frills are generally few or non-existent if you're not *S or *G.

The European business role looks more and more unlikely given the increasingly poor C Class service (yes, I am thinking of the bento boxes) which falls way short of BA's Club Europe product, and alos given the dropping of business oriented destinations (MAD looks to be next on the chopping block, I see). How long is it before BMI drop other primarily business routes like CDG or BRU because the businessmen are either going low cost or opting for either BA or AF (whose C class products are often cheaper and arguably better).

I know that Sir Michael Bishop still harbours dreams of turning BMI into a serious transatlantic player, but that just isn't going to happen without Bermuda II renegotiation, which doesn't seem likely any time soon. For those of us who are London based, it's impossible to take BMI seriously as a transatlantic option (moreover, the business that matters is done in NYC, not in Washington or Chicago, for goodness sake. Who do BMI think they are trying to fool?) I'm sorry if this seems to be developing into an intemperate rant, but it saddens me to see a carrier which used to be my first preference lose its way so badly. Perhaps I'm exaggerating. What do other people think? Judging by the way some of the crew on the cabin PA stay on message with 'BMI' while others (generally flight crew) cling to "British Midland" even BMI crew appear to be unsure.

GoldCircle

Agree on all counts... (except that my business in Washington and Chicago matters to me )

jmd

Sorry for dimissing your working life at a stroke, Goldcircle, I hope business in Washington and Chicago is booming for you . We in the financial world don't get out of NYC much when stateside. Glad you agree with the rest, though. Is it time for some FTer activism to show them the error of their ways? Shall we arrange a picket at LHR?

chalf

I would think that a transatlantic hub at MAN should be adequate. It won't get the London O&D traffic, but if BD has a good enough feeder network from elsewhere in the UK and even Europe, it could offer a wide range of one-stop flights to major US destinations should be quite feasible--much as DL bases its transatlantic network on flights from CVG and ATL, or NW from MSP and DTW, or US from PHL and CLT. If one must make a connection, from what I have heard MAN is often superior to LHR.

London also already has non-stop flights to most major US destinations, so transatlantic flights from LHR (or any other LON airport) would place BD head-to-head with AA, VS, BA, UA, DL, CO, NW and US (as long as they're around...). Service to MAN from the US is far more sparse, so BD could offer the only non-stop and convenient one-stop (competing with connections in LHR and possibly AMS/CDG) service for non-MAN O&D traffic. It would also be on a much more even competitive footing with BA.

As to IAD and ORD as destinations, those are likely based in part on the ability to tie-in with Star partner UA. UA has much less of a domestic US network from JFK/EWR, so flights to NYC would depend more on O&D traffic.

MAN Flyer

I totally agree that they can't seem to make up their minds up what they are doing in Europe, dropping a mainline service in favour of it's LCC subsidiary from a less desirable London Airport is not a good sign.

However, I disagree with the transatlantic comments. BD are building themselves a very good reputation for their transatlantic in-flight service, this is not just from UK based pax either judging by comments on the *A board and elsewhere.

If you look at the services they've added recently it seems they are intent on expanding at MAN for now, especially as there seems to be no chance of any movement on Bermuda II. It's obvious that LHR is their first choice but they're making the best of what they can for now.

Anyway, why can't you 'Southerners' come up here to connect for a change ?. We've had to go through the zoo that is LHR for long enough

NickB

You won't get any Bermuda renegotiation because the next agreement will be a EU-US one now that the EU Council has given the Commission a mandate to negotiate such an agreement.
This, however, could eventually lead to the unblocking of the LHR issue which has proved a dead end in Uk-US bilateral negotiations.

AJLondon

Oay. Don't get started on that now.... Come 'up north'..., yeah really!

I use BD for mostly domestic UK flights, (about 40 flights a year). And the reasons, I LIKE BD:
-I like the fact that they atleast bother to have two separate cabins on domestic UK services.
-I like (most of!) the hot panini's that they serve in both C & Y for morning flights. The bacon ones are especially useful for curing a hangover on the morning red-eye.
-I like the facilites in the DC lounges, especially the cappucinos in the DC at LHR.
-I find the BD crew and DC staff much friendlier than BA, and other airlines.

Now some slight peeves:
-I dislike the fact that they have stopped serving champagne in C on domestic flights. I miss my (morning / afternoon / evening ) bucks fizz
-LHR checkin and security queues can be a pain at the best of times, even with elite status.
-I agree that the European service schedule and routes are not ideal. But in both C & Y, the service is still superior IMHO, when compared to major competetitors (eg, the new LH 'enhanced' European service concept).

As far as transatlantic service goes, most people who have tried bmi longhaul rate it superior, especially the business, to LH, OS, AC. And as I almost always connect for my transatlantics at FRA, I would have no problem whatsoever connecting at MAN. Yes, really! However, bmi do need to improve the feeders into MAN to time better with the transatlantic departures to make this a more realistic option.

And LHR is pretty crowded anyways so its good if bmi takes pity on those "poor un-serviced northeners" and help develop MAN into a decent hub to help them all get away!!!

jmd

I'm sure the BD transatlantic service is excellent. For those of you living in MAN and points north it must be a welcome alternative, and I had no intention of disparaging it. For the record, I connect through MAN from time to time and it's always a pleasure . What I was really trying to get at is that even on this point BD's strategy is hard to fathom. BD have never tried to conceal the fact that they regard transatlantic flights ex MAN as a consolation prize for not being able to operate ex-LHR. The fact remains that it will be a long time before MAN becomes anything more than a niche market for transatlantic routes. Are BD expanding at MAN in the hope that the LHR issue is resolved in the future? If they do (one day) manage to operate from LHR, what will happen to the services from MAN (not to mention their European mainline services? Will BMI baby take them all over?). It would be interesting to know whether BD's transatlantic services are profitable. Does anyone out there know what the load factors are like on these routes? If they're not making money, the whole thing starts to look like an ego trip, which can't be good for any of us in the long term.

onlyflybmi/UA

I have to agree, I work extensively out of the US, and having traveled via the majority of US carriers in both Y and C, I can say that bmi is heads and tails above the rest of the competition as far, as I'm concerned, (I'm sure others can contest that statement ). In fact I was introduced to bmi after being re-routed by UA, and I haven't looked back.

As far as their services originating from MAN, this is a great thing! LHR is a disguisting, appalling airport that should be ashamed of itself, it ranks right up their with CDG as far as I'm concerned, and I am more than prepared to pay whatever premium is necessary to avoid it.

As an aside and interestingly enough, I have seen several people stateside specifically ask to be put on bmi flights, so I guess the reputation is spreading ^ .

Just my 2p

Safe travels

Dakota

Couldn't agree more. BD seems to be in terminal decline, redeemed only by the value of its slots at LHR. I used to love flying BD, but over the last couple of years it's gone from bad to worse. There isn't even the useful network there used to be, with a mix of business and leisure destinations; after all, it's good to have an attractive choice of places to redeem miles to, as well as to earn them.

Alas, my last flight with bmi pretty much put me off for good. What a shame.

AJLondon

Thru BD you can get The Star Alliance, one of the biggest alliances in the world, giving unbelievably attractive redemption possibiilites IMHO. And you earn miles to on all star carriers, (as well as Virgin and SAA for DC members.)

And it is only BD that allows cash and points possibilites for award redemption too!

Dakota

No need for the ... Obviously I meant being able to use the DC G redemptions booking into business on BD and using the gold upgrade vouchers - which are only useful to me on leisure.

I am well aware that BD is in Star!

AJLondon

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic. Apologies if it came across as so. I was actually confused about the 'lack of redemption options' comment. I totally agree with you about the gold upgrade vouchers usage options though.

Also IIRC, BD is the only airline that allows gold card holders to upgrade automatically (on space available basis) when doing reward redemption on BD, without charging extra miles. I don't know how successful the upgrade availability actually works out in practice though.

Dakota

No worries. In hindsight, I should have been clearer that I meant redemption on the same carrier to maximise elite benefits.

To answer your question, I've not had any problems redeeming into business: quite the opposite in fact, because there's often been "I" availability when no "X" availability.

jmd

Not great, in my experience, tho' that was a couple of years ago (humble Silver now). I actually think DC is one of the better aspects of BD - it still seems to function fairly well. It's the drop in on-board service quality, together with the increasingly schizophrenic list of desinations (thanks to someone in a neighbouring thread for that pithy description) that really irritates me. Plus the fact that the new identity lacks cohesion and seems to be trying to be everything to all people (LCC for those wanting cheapo Y class deals, business carrier for all of us old lags who sit in the DC loung day after day). More often then not they are falling between two stools. I have family in N. Ireland, and I do the LHR-BHD run quite a bit. As it's pleasure (allegedly) I tend to go Y class rather than C. I am, however, fed up with paying ludicrous Y class fares (�200+) for service little better than Easyjet (or indeed paying full C Class fares for a bento box). With BA no longer operating LHR-BFS, BD have no competition on the route, and they no longer seem to care whether their customers like the service or not. The alternative is trekking out to LTN or STN, and that isn't much of an alternative at the best of times...