Depending on where you are going, one-way fares on the Cascades can exceed $100. I just made a redemption from SLM-VAC r/t for 3000 points in business class that would have cost $198 in cash. Since I got the 10% AGR Mastercard rebate, I only used 2700 points. That's a 7.3 cents per point redemption value.

Had I chosen coach seats, the trip would have cost me $164 in cash or 1800 in points (factoring in the Mastercard rebate). That's a whopping 9.1 cents per point value. I know I got a lower value by using business class but in this case I prefered the amenities in business class over the better redemption value in coach.

Had I paid cash for the cheaper northbound leg (still $62, so not "cheap") and used points only for the pricier southbound leg ($102), the value for 900 points would have been 11.3 cents per point. Even without the Mastercard rebate the redemption value would have been 10.2 cents per point.

On the other hand, by ClimbGuy's definition I got zero value for my points if you base it on what I would have been willing to pay. For in this case, what I would have been willing to pay is zero. In other words, this is a joy ride plain and simple. I don't need to go to VAC...but I've never been on the segment btw SEA and VAC and this was a great chance to do that for free.

Are you honestly saying you think your AGR points are worth $0.091?

If you wouldn't have paid a dime for your 'joy ride.' you are not getting $0.091 per point because you don't value the trip at $198.

Doing so is just like the 'As Seen on TV' marketing strategy....

$25 according to whom? Can/will someone buy the 'free' one from me for $25? The answer is: no.

Unless you have already bought 10,000 AGR points you can only value a point upto $0.02115 since if you could have gotten a ticket using points you purchased.

So your best argument could me you got $0.02115 per point (assuming you haven't maxed out buying points)

In response to ClimbGuy: I'm going to clarify my prior post a little.

1) When I say unique I mean that unlike airlines there are "special routes" that change the valuation of an AGR point. An airline will have a basic structure where for 25k points you can fly anywhere in the continental US. subject to availability. Trips must be booked well in advance (to find a seat and now to avoid the new fees for booking less than 21 days before travel) and any changes are costly. Amtrak has their basic zone structure and then adds in their NEC and special routes which can alter a point valuation IF you use those routes.

2) I agree with you regarding special routes. I have only taken the Pacific Surfliner which costs $36. However the Cascades route from Vancouver to Eugene is $121 for a train tomorrow or 1,000 AGR points. If you use that route then your valuation will be much higher. All I'm saying is that this messes up a basic calc of valuation simply by being a option.

3) Sleepers are expensive even in low bucket fares. Still an amazing deal.

4) Quik trak machines have a big advantage for reward and cash tickets. Easy refund ability. No airline will credit your miles back if you miss the flight. This is a huge perk for booking rewards and IMHO makes these points more valuable. The AGR system of allowing you to book anytime with few blackout dates as well as an easy no fee return policy adds value to a AGR point. By knowing that I can obtain reward trips easily I might reconsider a spend as I earn attitude.

Knowing that if I need to get somewhere in the NEC last minute (I live in NYC) and can use 3k AGR points instead of paying a high fare bucket. Basically it comes down to using AGR points for last minute or high bucket fares as well as saving for a special trip like a sleeper. If I lived near a special route, my AGR cc would certainly be my primary card.

I hope we can all agree with the following statment.

Amtrak Guest Rewards points have fantastic redeption value compaired with airline's frequent flyer miles. As such many are justified in valuing an AGR point more then a mile on most airlines.

That said regardless of the program, the value one gets when redeaming points or miles for an award is only as high as the traveler would pay for the ticket with cash.

Until ones buys 10,000 points one cannot value an AGR point more then $0.02115 until the end of the 30% bonus point promo.

The first ten (durring the 30% promo the first 13) special route trips one takes in a year cannot be 'valued' at more then the cost of buying the points.

I disagree with this.

Redemption value is based on the amount in cash a reward saves you (we agree on this).

The fact that you might buy points for less than this amount simply indicates an arbitrage situation. It does not put an upper cap on the value of the points.

The question of how much you save can be viewed in several ways. So are you staying you agree that one can only value a point as much as they would be willing to pay in cash for a ticket? Or do you view amount 'saved' in terms of actual ticket price, regardless of a customer's willingness to pay that amount?

How does it not? The hypothetical Cascades trip for $121, can be had by anyone for a fraction of that cost by buying points.

If you didn't have the 1000 points to book the special route and wanted to travel on the train, you would have two options. One pay Amtrak $121 you would also earn AGR points include Select qualifying points. Your other option would be to buy the points from Amtrak for less then $30. So how could you possibly value the points for anything more then you could buy them for?

Now, if you want to argue that you frequently travel in sleeper and do so buying paid rather then award tickets. Then and only then could you argue the $0.06 or $0.09 that others mention.

A little while back I booked a two zone bedroom using the SDL trip to make for a 6 day rail trip. Had I booked it as a paid reservation it would have cost over $3,000. So does that mean I value AGR points at $0.10 each? It doesn't, I figured I would probably be willing to pay $700-800 for the trip had I booked it with cash. So my true value of the point would be somewhere in the $0.025-$0.0275 range. Unfortunately, I had to cancel the trip because of another conflict.

OK, I edited my above post to address your argument.

Never mind.

the thread is 100% 'academic' or theoretical.

All I am saying is it makes no sense to value a point at the prevailing cost of a paid ticket, unless you would have been willing to pay the prevailing cash fare.

In some situations that may be the case, I have had this happen to me on two occasions with award travel.

In one situation, I had to travel for a work related purposes my employer reimbursed me for the prevailing fare and I used points.

The other was when I had to go to a funeral. I was going to travel regardless of cost, however because the last minute ticket was so expensive I decided to use points.

It makes no sense to you. It does to others.

If you like thinking about how you are getting a great deal and derive pleasure for feeling you got a good value, then by all means value your points how ever you would want.

ClimbGuy: I agree with you about the point valuation. I would never pay for a LD sleeper and certainly wouldn't value my points used for one as $1000 or more. However people will certainly think that they bought a ticket that, had Amtrak sold that ticket for cash, is valued at $1000. So if you look at what Amtrak is analyzing, then Amtrak redeemed 20k miles instead of $1000 from you (the customer). Based on that calculation, you redeemed your points for a high valuation.

Do you recall reading in the miles forums about people asking what the most expensive ticket they can book using the 25k miles. People replied that the OP should go visit a place he actually wants to go to. Some people just want to redeem for the most expensive ticket possible just to get the "best value for their points".

I will say that I'm nervous of the overhaul of Amtrak's booking system. You might start seeing capacity limits for reward tix. A recent article in the WSJ discussing the new high speed trains was showing that the odds are against amtrak in being chosen as managing these new trains. That's a bit unusual considering Amtrak is similar to a quasi governement company (like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).

I generally don't use AGR points unless I can get at least 3 points per cent at low-bucket fares, so I guess that I value them at price. I have paid more than $600 for a roomette from St. Paul to Washington for two people, so I'd certainly pay 20k points for a roomette from Minot to Washington.

My most recent trip would have cost over 7.5 cents per point. I try to never redeem AGR or airline miles for less than 5 cents.

Exactly. ^

I sell one-of-a-kind pet rocks that are normally $95 each. However, jackal, you can have one for just 95 AGR points.

At a redemption value of 100 cents/point, how many dozen pet rocks would you like to buy?

Keep in mind I'm offering a redemption value not twice, not quadruple, but 10x better than an Amtrak sleeper award! ^