value of a point
 

Hi,

How much would you guys guess an AGR point is worth? I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off paying cash or redeeming points for an upcoming trip.

Thanks.

Since they convert to CO miles 1:1, and I value those at least 1.7-2 cents. 1.7 - 2 cents would be my personal number.

Your results may vary.

You can buy them from AGR at 2.75 cents/point as another data point.

I'd value AGR points much higher than that, at least for use on Amtrak long-distance trains. Look a few threads down. A 30,000-point redemption on a train where the bedroom is running $1400 would mean 4.7 cents per point. I've achieved as high as 6 cents per point for a sleeper redemption versus the going fare at time of ticketing! That's on the high side, but even half that value is still decent.

The dollar value of points/miles has come up on FT more times then I can count.

The value of a point is the amount you would be willing to pay for the flight if you paid cash.

Sure you could use 30,000 points for a $1,400 LD sleeper. However would you be willing to pay $1,400 for that sleeper if you didn't have the points? Probably not. So valuing the point at $0.047 doesn't make any sense.

The same goes for that First Class airline ticket to Asia. Maybe it goes for $15,000 and you cashed in 100,000 miles. However that doesn't mean your miles are worth $0.15 each, that is unless if you didn't have the miles you would have paid the $15,000 price tag. The same goes for a luxury hotel suite in Manhattan or Tokyo; would you really pay $900 or more per night without the points?

I've always been hell-bent on being able to travel Amtrak sleeper because it's such a great experience. I've never paid the highest bucket; before AGR if only high fares were available I'd find another date. So while most people probably wouldn't pay for transpac F, I certainly would (and do) pay for some Amtrak sleeper trips. The high-value ones I normally pay with AGR points. Just my personal preference, of course.

GoAmtrak, that's fine you just have to value the AGR point at a lower fare bucket sleeper. A $1,400 two-zone is definitely a higher fare bucked.

Without knowing any more details about the 2 options you have (cash or points) I can give you a quick summary about what makes Amtrak unique among point programs.

1k Trips - These special routes may cost $50 a trip so spending the miles is prob. the best use in the program.

Sleepers - These are a large number of points but fit 2-4 people into an award which makes it an excellent value. This is only for people who take LD trains with sleepers. It's a great redemption for people who would take this type of train (as opposed to commuter type lines which is what is mainly found in the NEC which handles most of Amtrak traffic).

NEC - For 3k you can redeem trips from Montreal - New York, New York - Washington and almost all points between the 2 cities. In peak times these tickets are $100+ which makes the 3k a great value.

Also tickets are refundable as long as you don't print them out from the quik ticket machine (if you have printed it already then you need to mail the actual ticket to Amtrak which takes time).

Few blackout dates and no capacity controls means you can book the emergency ticket with no hassle and no extra miles. There are no fuel surcharges or even tax.

If any of my information is incorrect please correct me and feel free to add anything.

Back to the OP, the value of the points depend on if/what you want to use the points on, and the particular route you are taking. Most people take the same few routes and learn the ticket prices to arrive at their valuation. I would say .02 would be the lowest valuation for an Amtrak point. Use cash for any valuation under that.

If by unique, you mean good value I will agree with that, but it doesn't change the way you should value a points and miles. Which is, to say how much would you be willing to pay in cash for an award ticket. Also, when booking awards you don't earn points including credit towards Select status.

While this may be true 'Special Routes' are only in a few places in the country. I am not saying there aren't any $50 ones, I just only know of ones in the $20-30 range.



This is also true from a dollar standpoint. The family room can hold up to 2 adults and 2 children. This could be a really fun trip with a family, however how many people using their points for the trip would really pay anywhere near what the cost would be for a higher fare bucket trip?

This is true, I just took a 3,000 point NE trip from Washington, DC to Montreal. While I know NE trips in regional can cost $120ish from NYC-DC, i would never pay that. If traveling between the two cities, I frequently take the MegaBus from anywhere from $1-15. So maybe I would value a train ticket at $30 since it is more comfortable and a little faster. So If I cashed in a ticket from NYC-DC, I would only be getting $0.01 per point.

This is true of cash tickets too, so i don't really see any difference or how this makes AGR special.

Again this is a great perk of AGR, but it just needs to be calculated into the cost of travel. Airlines frequently have sales on flights about 10 days out if they are not filling up. Amtrak doesn't offer as much of this and prices almost always move in one direction the closer one gets to departure.


I don't think anything you said is factually incorrect, I just don't see how it changes the fact that you can only value a point as at the amount you would be willing to pay cash for the ticket. NOT the actually cash price of the ticket.

I agree, for my travel patters AGR points are worth about $0.02, maybe $0.03.

FWIW, I disagree with the idea that you can only value a point at what you would be willing to spend in cash. I think it is perfectly rational to value a point at whatever the going rate is, regardless whether you would pay that much for it.

If you buy a $150,000 property that later sells for $300,000, you don't say, "Well, it's only worth $150,000, because I only would have paid $150,000 for it."

The fallacy of that logic is that you could actually resell the property for $300000 or borrow based on that appraised value. Neither is true of tickets.

As someone else pointed out AGR offers to sell points for 2.75 cents/point so that is the maximum that they could be worth even if you can use them to secure a ticket that would otherwise cost 6 cents/per point. And anyone who paid 6 cents/per point paid too much.

The only time I could see this as being rational is if you donated your miles to charity by booking an award ticket for an aid working or something.

You may have grounds to 'value' the gift at the going cash rate for IRS purposes for the travel booked.

Otherwise, you have a very poor argument. Including your example, being able to sell property for $300,000 and having it appraised for $300,000 are very different things.

There is one piece of information that is missing here.

Based on: https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/i...BuyPoints.html

AGR will only sell you up to 10,000 points per calendar year.

Also, until the end of July they are giving away a 30% bonus. So they are effectively selling points for $0.02115 each.

However, if you want to book a cross country three zone bedroom it would take five years before you could book the 50,000 point reservation.

I agree that I oversimplified this but if you are really determined to BUY that many miles there are additional options (like buying OnePass miles then transferring them to AGR, etc.).

This is true and buying OP miles is a bit more expensive then AGR points http://www.continental.com/web/en-US.../buymiles.aspx

In short, the value of an AGR point is only as much as you would be willing to pay for the ticket with cash.