No Centurion offer after 10m+ annual spend and $5m in Amex savings account?
Nov 27, 2018, 4:23 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
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It doesn't work that way.
The FDIC insurance is $250k by type of account per depositor, so you can try to have a single account, joint accounts, etc etc at your name up to $250k. And some trusts, revocable or not (where the insurance amount is then more determined by the number of beneficiaries).
But again, just creating across multiple institutions won't work, even if your institution doesn't know, the FDIC basically requires the deposit insurance amounts to be calculated per institution per account type per depositor and sent to them regularly.
So they are going to know if your aggregated number is above $250k or not.
...
Apologies for derailing the thread btw.
The FDIC insurance is $250k by type of account per depositor, so you can try to have a single account, joint accounts, etc etc at your name up to $250k. And some trusts, revocable or not (where the insurance amount is then more determined by the number of beneficiaries).
But again, just creating across multiple institutions won't work, even if your institution doesn't know, the FDIC basically requires the deposit insurance amounts to be calculated per institution per account type per depositor and sent to them regularly.
So they are going to know if your aggregated number is above $250k or not.
...
Apologies for derailing the thread btw.
"The standard insurance amount is $250,000 per depositor, per insured bank, for each account ownership category."
https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/
So yes, in the simplest case, I could open two individual savings accounts at BofA and Chase with $250,000 each and if both banks go under, FDIC would cover both accounts as they are with separate insured banks. And as you correctly say, I could actually hold more funds at each bank if the account ownership is different.
Nov 27, 2018, 4:24 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 600
Yes indeed.
He has no real expenses to take care of either because he lives in a high rise condo that includes everything which was a gift to him from his family when he graduated college. I am happy for him because he's a really cool guy that doesn't at all flaunt anything and shares generously.
He has no real expenses to take care of either because he lives in a high rise condo that includes everything which was a gift to him from his family when he graduated college. I am happy for him because he's a really cool guy that doesn't at all flaunt anything and shares generously.
Nov 27, 2018, 4:24 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,041
Well, since we are derailed, we might as well correct it.
"The standard insurance amount is $250,000 per depositor, per insured bank, for each account ownership category."
https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/
So yes, in the simplest case, I could open two individual savings accounts at BofA and Chase with $250,000 each and if both banks go under, FDIC would cover both accounts as they are with separate insured banks. And as you correctly say, I could actually hold more funds at each bank if the account ownership is different.
"The standard insurance amount is $250,000 per depositor, per insured bank, for each account ownership category."
https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/
So yes, in the simplest case, I could open two individual savings accounts at BofA and Chase with $250,000 each and if both banks go under, FDIC would cover both accounts as they are with separate insured banks. And as you correctly say, I could actually hold more funds at each bank if the account ownership is different.
Is this right or wrong? "per insured bank" sure makes it sound like I'm right, but Gasolin seems to be certain I'm wrong.
Nov 27, 2018, 5:41 pm
#34
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: OZ Diamond *A Gold / Delta Gold
Posts: 775
Nov 27, 2018, 5:51 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,041
Nov 27, 2018, 6:07 pm
#36
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 123
First, I can commiserate with the frustration. It looks like you’ve had a lot of success and I’m sure it is vexing to not be able to clearly see the steps to get the card. On a much smaller level its a bit like getting into art collecting - just because you have the means doesn’t mean you can swing by the store and pick up a Monet 
I’m not an expert like many on the forum, but to answer your question here are my WAGs:
1) American Express uses a complicated formula to determine LTV (or whatever the corporate lingo for this is, see the Nov. 1st article in the WSJ “On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score.”) Sustained spending is likely to be the biggest component of the scoring because this is AMEX’s core business.
2) The formula for the personal card gives less weight to business spenders. Probably a function of the number of comparable clients AMEX has. If you were a creative, or in some unusual profession, I expect you get extra points.
3) Length of relationship with AMEX. Some forum members have received invitations after many years of membership. Maybe they are getting classified in a brand evangelizer category or something.
4) Given the process, there is manual review. Some discretion is probably given to the reviewers, and I expect social media presence (sigh...) can positively or negatively affect things.
5) There are like 90 other variables going into your customer profile.
As others have mentioned J.P. Morgan can give you your metal fix. Or you can stick it out with American Express and see what happens after a few years. In any event, enjoy those POINTS! Nice cache
I’m not an expert like many on the forum, but to answer your question here are my WAGs:
1) American Express uses a complicated formula to determine LTV (or whatever the corporate lingo for this is, see the Nov. 1st article in the WSJ “On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score.”) Sustained spending is likely to be the biggest component of the scoring because this is AMEX’s core business.
2) The formula for the personal card gives less weight to business spenders. Probably a function of the number of comparable clients AMEX has. If you were a creative, or in some unusual profession, I expect you get extra points.
3) Length of relationship with AMEX. Some forum members have received invitations after many years of membership. Maybe they are getting classified in a brand evangelizer category or something.
4) Given the process, there is manual review. Some discretion is probably given to the reviewers, and I expect social media presence (sigh...) can positively or negatively affect things.
5) There are like 90 other variables going into your customer profile.
As others have mentioned J.P. Morgan can give you your metal fix. Or you can stick it out with American Express and see what happens after a few years. In any event, enjoy those POINTS! Nice cache
Nov 27, 2018, 9:33 pm
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
First, I can commiserate with the frustration. It looks like you’ve had a lot of success and I’m sure it is vexing to not be able to clearly see the steps to get the card. On a much smaller level its a bit like getting into art collecting - just because you have the means doesn’t mean you can swing by the store and pick up a Monet
I’m not an expert like many on the forum, but to answer your question here are my WAGs:
1) American Express uses a complicated formula to determine LTV (or whatever the corporate lingo for this is, see the Nov. 1st article in the WSJ “On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score.”) Sustained spending is likely to be the biggest component of the scoring because this is AMEX’s core business.
2) The formula for the personal card gives less weight to business spenders. Probably a function of the number of comparable clients AMEX has. If you were a creative, or in some unusual profession, I expect you get extra points.
3) Length of relationship with AMEX. Some forum members have received invitations after many years of membership. Maybe they are getting classified in a brand evangelizer category or something.
4) Given the process, there is manual review. Some discretion is probably given to the reviewers, and I expect social media presence (sigh...) can positively or negatively affect things.
5) There are like 90 other variables going into your customer profile.
As others have mentioned J.P. Morgan can give you your metal fix. Or you can stick it out with American Express and see what happens after a few years. In any event, enjoy those POINTS! Nice cache
I’m not an expert like many on the forum, but to answer your question here are my WAGs:
1) American Express uses a complicated formula to determine LTV (or whatever the corporate lingo for this is, see the Nov. 1st article in the WSJ “On Hold for 45 Minutes? It Might Be Your Secret Customer Score.”) Sustained spending is likely to be the biggest component of the scoring because this is AMEX’s core business.
2) The formula for the personal card gives less weight to business spenders. Probably a function of the number of comparable clients AMEX has. If you were a creative, or in some unusual profession, I expect you get extra points.
3) Length of relationship with AMEX. Some forum members have received invitations after many years of membership. Maybe they are getting classified in a brand evangelizer category or something.
4) Given the process, there is manual review. Some discretion is probably given to the reviewers, and I expect social media presence (sigh...) can positively or negatively affect things.
5) There are like 90 other variables going into your customer profile.
As others have mentioned J.P. Morgan can give you your metal fix. Or you can stick it out with American Express and see what happens after a few years. In any event, enjoy those POINTS! Nice cache
Thanks for the insights. This was the type of reply I was hoping for. I'm actually not at all ruffled I don't have an offer...this is just fun speculation. Speaking of the various hidden variables, I wonder if I got bucketed into the "poor person" bucket early on with my first Amex card in college, and I am locked into some sort of track. Also, 90% of my spend is from 3 individual vendors (think servers and online advertising) which I bet could mess up the algorithms.
In any case, I have seen many threads that say there is some secret spend number that automatically unlocks an invite, and I think I am clear proof that isn't the case. Or, at a minimum, it is far higher than most people expect.
Are the rates any good? From what I know they spread you out over a ton of banks, and most banks have pretty crappy rates, so I'd actually get less interest than from my savings account.
Last edited by mia; Nov 28, 2018 at 3:13 am Reason: Combine consecutive replies
Nov 28, 2018, 9:16 am
#42
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: PHL, LHR
Posts: 219
Seems to me the answer to the OP is pretty simple: live a little. Being cheap isn't a virtue. Spend some of those 15million miles and take your wife on a trip! Everyone has pretty clearly demonstrated that Amex isn't looking for people who make 1mm a year running a paper factory, drive a Chevy Tahoe, and to whom a grandslam night out is a costco run followed by the seafood buffet at the nearby Red Lobster. (I actually know a guy like this - ran a paper factory that blew up ten-fold when he became one of Amazon's east coast suppliers for packaging paper). Anyways, I think you kind of answered your own question in your post, if you want the Centurion, live a little more - save a little less.
Nov 28, 2018, 10:11 am
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
Seems to me the answer to the OP is pretty simple: live a little. Being cheap isn't a virtue. Spend some of those 15million miles and take your wife on a trip! Everyone has pretty clearly demonstrated that Amex isn't looking for people who make 1mm a year running a paper factory, drive a Chevy Tahoe, and to whom a grandslam night out is a costco run followed by the seafood buffet at the nearby Red Lobster. (I actually know a guy like this - ran a paper factory that blew up ten-fold when he became one of Amazon's east coast suppliers for packaging paper). Anyways, I think you kind of answered your own question in your post, if you want the Centurion, live a little more - save a little less.
But, all that aside, I still don't understand why I don't have the business Centurion offer, which should be more about my business activity. Not getting an invite to the personal version makes plenty of sense.
Nov 28, 2018, 10:44 am
#44
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 120
But I will also echo - who cares? Having a Centurion card won't help your quality of life one iota over the Platinum.
Nov 28, 2018, 10:47 am
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
There are 3 reasons you would want the Centurion card: ego, the gold star effect, and value.
Ego
This is the obvious reason and also what draws a lot of the snide comments. People like to show off their bling, and they tie their self worth into what other people think of them. The card, especially the personal one plays right into this. I personally find it a bit gross, but I also realize that ALL people have an ego. In fact, to say you have no ego is perhaps the most egotistical thing you can say period, as it implies you have somehow transcended being human. So, I give that retort to the snide comment makers who are trying to make the implication that they are so above it all while simultaneously engaging with me in this thread. I will admit that my ego is involved here to the extent that I generally come across as so understated when people try to peacock me I get an involuntary smile by being able to send the message that "not all rich people are flashy douche bags like you."
Gold Star Effect
This is related to the above, but not exactly. If you have little kids, or just think back to elementary school, you understand how you can reward behavior through gamification. People like to win games. It doesn't matter if the prize is empty. It doesn't even necessarily matter if you get to share your trophy with the world. You might think this is a little kid phenomena, but we never out grow it. The awards you can win just become more "important" by whatever societal definition you go by. I recently watched a video of a pole vaulter winning a world record. The guy was so elated that he jumped higher than anyone else in the world. He won. But practically, the accomplishment was useless. How helpful is it to be able to jump high? He almost quite literally was jumping through hoops to win a prize. I am not saying this to diminish his accomplishment - we are all dead in the end, so by all means, make your own meaning in life. I don't say that snarkily. Getting a Centurion card is no different. For me, I started as a broke college student buying beer for parties on my credit card to earn points. It became a game. I realize it is a meaningless game, but still fun to play, and in some ways, this would be like winning a game for me. I also play stupid video games, and I need to beat them, even if I won't ever tell a soul about my achievement.
Value
It is not true that the card is overpriced if used properly. I am extremely confident I would get the fee paid back over many times. Just one simple example - the Centurion card AFAIK still has the 50% rebate on point travel for first/biz class tickets or any class on your designated airline. I spend at least 1-2 million points a year on travel. Platinum only has a 35% rebate. That means I will be getting back an extra 150-300k points over my Platinum card. That alone is worth far more than the fee. And I also use Delta quite a bit but not enough to maintain status, so the platinum status there also pays for it. I also bet they are more helpful on the item protection warranty than for Platinum holders. I just had an $1000 washing machine break, and I would have really liked to have a dedicated rep do the paperwork for me. So, the simple algebra does pencil out, especially for a cheap person like me.