Amex Denial of Coverage for "Exotic Car" (Canada)
Mar 13, 2018, 2:13 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYZ / FRA
Programs: IHG RA; Avis First
Posts: 1,444
The argument is that the Jaguar is categorized as an "Exotic" car, which is not really an Exotic car.
I can afford a Jaguar but I can't afford an Exotic car AKA Lambo/Ferrari...
Mar 13, 2018, 5:05 pm
#33
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 72
No way!?!?! Damn, lets face it people with Centurion cards usually can afford a "better" cars. If I can help it I personally don't like to rent Ford, Honda, Toyota, Fiat, etc... Centurion card is supposed to be a "top charge/credit" card. By the looks of it these "coverage" are similar across the world I assume... Even with the Visa Infinite Privilege!
Tough to get a reply from the CEO, might have better chance with the COO. Maybe you should try asking in Twitter (that's if you use it, I personally don't).
I guess at the end of the day people are forced to take the insurance from the car rental company.
Tough to get a reply from the CEO, might have better chance with the COO. Maybe you should try asking in Twitter (that's if you use it, I personally don't).
I guess at the end of the day people are forced to take the insurance from the car rental company.
Mar 13, 2018, 7:29 pm
#35
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Mar 14, 2018, 10:38 am
#36
Join Date: Sep 2017
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I was going to rent a Corvette in IAH until I reviewed the T+C for the card to check for exclusions. The over $XX,XXX in value caught me up.
While I have personal car rental coverage thru my automobile carrier, I'd prefer not to involve them should something actually happen.
While I have personal car rental coverage thru my automobile carrier, I'd prefer not to involve them should something actually happen.
Mar 14, 2018, 3:05 pm
#37
Join Date: Nov 2002
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The definition of "exotic" seems internally inconsistent. If it ever got to arbitration, it would likely be construed against the drafter (i.e., AmEx), and in favor of the customer. Of course, if it's only a few thousand dollars, might not be worth going that far.
Doesn't OP have his own car insurance policy?
Doesn't OP have his own car insurance policy?
Mar 14, 2018, 7:35 pm
#38
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,909
it is us based chase which i believe has "luxury" exclusions as well - not sure if jag is explicitely spelled out..
i also wonder if booking a regular car and getting involuntarily upgraded vs booking a specialty luxury rare wharever car makes a diffetence...
doesnt make much sense overall - jag can be 30-40k and much cheaper than many card hertz offers not excluded
i also wonder if booking a regular car and getting involuntarily upgraded vs booking a specialty luxury rare wharever car makes a diffetence...
doesnt make much sense overall - jag can be 30-40k and much cheaper than many card hertz offers not excluded
Apr 10, 2018, 1:39 pm
#39
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Posts: 10,909
Edit: Italy is explicitly excluded by amex so back to Chase SP which has no exclusion for Italy or Jags (some other luxury brands like porsche maserati etc are excluded though)..
***
Unexpectedly i came across a jag priced similarly to regular cars (for a trip in europe) and i recalled this thread...
Is anyone more familiar with amex premium protection aware of exclusion mentioned by op for premium coverage with US issued amex?
I looked on amex site and it only mentions 100K total coverage but nothing specific on brand exclusion:
***
Unexpectedly i came across a jag priced similarly to regular cars (for a trip in europe) and i recalled this thread...
Is anyone more familiar with amex premium protection aware of exclusion mentioned by op for premium coverage with US issued amex?
I looked on amex site and it only mentions 100K total coverage but nothing specific on brand exclusion:
Up to $100,000 in coverage for damage or theft. For the higher priced option ($15.25 for FL residents, $17.95 for CA residents, $24.95 for all other states). Lower coverage option available.Many types of vehicles, such as luxury vehicles, SUVs, and pickup trucks.
Exclusions:
Premium Car Rental Protection excludes certain vehicles, items, and actions from coverage.
Excluded vehicles include: automobiles that have been customized or modified from the manufacturer's factory specifications, except for driver's assistance equipment for the physically challenged; any rented vehicle used for hire or commercial purposes; antique cars (cars over 20 years old or cars that have not been manufactured for over 10 years); limousines; off-road vehicles, motorcycles, motorbikes, mopeds, recreational vehicles, golf or motorized carts, campers, moving trucks or moving vans, and trailers. Insurance benefits will not be available if the loss is partially or wholly attributed to pushing or towing anything. Insurance benefits will also not be provided for damage to tires unless other damage to the Rental Car occurred in the same Accident.
Coverage may be subject to exclusions and limitations including certain exclusions related to pre-existing conditions. The exclusions and limitations may reduce the levels of coverage available to you. Under Accidental Death & Dismemberment coverage, depending on the severity, not all dismemberments are eligible for payment.
Please refer to your Plan documents for a complete description of the coverage exclusions.
Exclusions:
Premium Car Rental Protection excludes certain vehicles, items, and actions from coverage.
Excluded vehicles include: automobiles that have been customized or modified from the manufacturer's factory specifications, except for driver's assistance equipment for the physically challenged; any rented vehicle used for hire or commercial purposes; antique cars (cars over 20 years old or cars that have not been manufactured for over 10 years); limousines; off-road vehicles, motorcycles, motorbikes, mopeds, recreational vehicles, golf or motorized carts, campers, moving trucks or moving vans, and trailers. Insurance benefits will not be available if the loss is partially or wholly attributed to pushing or towing anything. Insurance benefits will also not be provided for damage to tires unless other damage to the Rental Car occurred in the same Accident.
Coverage may be subject to exclusions and limitations including certain exclusions related to pre-existing conditions. The exclusions and limitations may reduce the levels of coverage available to you. Under Accidental Death & Dismemberment coverage, depending on the severity, not all dismemberments are eligible for payment.
Please refer to your Plan documents for a complete description of the coverage exclusions.
Last edited by azepine00; Apr 10, 2018 at 1:46 pm
Jul 16, 2018, 8:44 am
#40
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YVR
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I rented a car from Avis in Germany on my American Express Gold Card. The vehicle was involved in an accident that was my fault.
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
Jul 16, 2018, 12:54 pm
#41
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYZ / FRA
Programs: IHG RA; Avis First
Posts: 1,444
I rented a car from Avis in Germany on my American Express Gold Card. The vehicle was involved in an accident that was my fault.
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
Jul 16, 2018, 1:17 pm
#42
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I rented a car from Avis in Germany on my American Express Gold Card. The vehicle was involved in an accident that was my fault.
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
Jul 27, 2018, 10:24 am
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 34
I rented a car from Avis in Germany on my American Express Gold Card. The vehicle was involved in an accident that was my fault.
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
I had rented an E Class sedan but when I was at the counter they were out of that category so they upgraded me to an Audi A8
I spoke with Amex this morning and they said if the vehicle has an MSRP over $85,000 CAD they will deny the claim. Audi is not on their exotic list but I think this car will exceed $85K MSRP
Any suggestions on what my options are or am I SOL?
The German MSRP for the 2018 A8 is EUR90,600. But this includes the 19% VAT in Germany. Subtracting that gets you to EUR73386, which is about $111,000CAD. The Amex certificate of insurance notes that coverage is $85,000CAD where the rental agreement is signed, so the German price in euros is what would apply, so it looks like you may be stuck.
Aside from arguing with RSA (Amex's Canadian insurer), if you have a primary auto insurance coverage for your car in Canada, it might cover you for this damage. It would increase your premiums, but it could be worth it.
You can request that RSA re-consider the decision, if you think there's a mitigating factor. You can then appeal any decision to RSA's internal appeal committee. Failing that, you can then appeal to GIO Canada, which is the private obudsperson employed by Canadian insurers. Depending on the extent of the damage, you can also file a civil court claim, either Small Claims or other. But it sounds like the insurance certificate is clear here, although there may be some argument if you were upgraded at the last minute, I'm not sure.
EDIT: If you had a 2017 Audi A8, the german MSRP appears to have been 85000EUR. Also, the Amex Certificate of Insurance notes that its $85000CAD before all taxes, so if there are additional taxes in Germany built into the MSRP that I'm not aware of (or if I'm wrong on the 19% VAT and it's higher percentage), you could look into that.
Last edited by joburghfx; Jul 27, 2018 at 10:44 am
Jul 27, 2018, 10:35 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 34
Apologies if an answer to this has been posted elsewhere, but I can't seem to find anyone else with a similar issue. I have the standard Canadian Amex Platinum. Thought I knew most of the exceptions (vehicles over $85k, pickups, vans, exotic cars, etc), but have run into an issue with being denied coverage. Reserved a rental in Germany with Hertz. Reserved a mid-size or full-size (don't have the docs here at the moment) Ford Mondeo or Similar, and when we picked up we received a Jaguar XE 2.0d sedan with 70k kms. Didn't think anything of it at the time. It's a compact, 4 cylinder diesel sedan, MSRP in Canada would be approx. $45k.
Had a minor accident (thankfully). Submitted a claim immediately to Amex within the 72 hour window. Hertz liability coverage took (I assume, never heard anything else) care of the third party's damage. From the time of the accident, to driving to the closest Hertz outlet to exchange the car and dealing with paperwork, we were back on the road within 2 hours (gotta love German efficiency).
Anyway, Amex Canada's insurer RSA has denied coverage for the vehicle, because they claim the car is an "exotic" vehicle under their policy. Here's the definition in Amex's Certificate of Insurance in Canada, where you'll see the issue I've encountered:
"Exotic” means any automobile which is not a standard Rental Auto offered by most of the Rental Agencies in the province or state, or in a country without provinces or states, where the vehicle was rented or is a vehicle totally or partially custom made, hand made, hand finished or is a vehicle of limited production (under 2,000 vehicles per year by the manufacturer). Exotic automobiles include, but are not limited to the following models: Aston Martin, Bentley, Bricklin, Daimler, De Lorean, Excalibur, Ferrari, Jaguar, Jensen, Lamborghini, Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, Rolls Royce and limousines.
As you can see, Jaguar is listed as an exotic vehicle. But the Hertz office had a number of them in the garage, along with lots of other base model Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and the XE sells way more than 2000 per year and is not hand made or custom. Given that that definition includes Bricklin, De Lorean, and Excalibur, I think the definition likely hasn't been updated in a while. I mean, you'd think a Tesla Model S would be more exotic than a Jaguar XE. I have submitted an appeal of the decision to RSA, and am waiting for it to be considered, but wondering if anyone else has had similar experience or tips for resolving this sort of ludicrous situation. I'd prefer not to be personally responsible for a few thousand dollars in damage.
Had a minor accident (thankfully). Submitted a claim immediately to Amex within the 72 hour window. Hertz liability coverage took (I assume, never heard anything else) care of the third party's damage. From the time of the accident, to driving to the closest Hertz outlet to exchange the car and dealing with paperwork, we were back on the road within 2 hours (gotta love German efficiency).
Anyway, Amex Canada's insurer RSA has denied coverage for the vehicle, because they claim the car is an "exotic" vehicle under their policy. Here's the definition in Amex's Certificate of Insurance in Canada, where you'll see the issue I've encountered:
"Exotic” means any automobile which is not a standard Rental Auto offered by most of the Rental Agencies in the province or state, or in a country without provinces or states, where the vehicle was rented or is a vehicle totally or partially custom made, hand made, hand finished or is a vehicle of limited production (under 2,000 vehicles per year by the manufacturer). Exotic automobiles include, but are not limited to the following models: Aston Martin, Bentley, Bricklin, Daimler, De Lorean, Excalibur, Ferrari, Jaguar, Jensen, Lamborghini, Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, Rolls Royce and limousines.
As you can see, Jaguar is listed as an exotic vehicle. But the Hertz office had a number of them in the garage, along with lots of other base model Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and the XE sells way more than 2000 per year and is not hand made or custom. Given that that definition includes Bricklin, De Lorean, and Excalibur, I think the definition likely hasn't been updated in a while. I mean, you'd think a Tesla Model S would be more exotic than a Jaguar XE. I have submitted an appeal of the decision to RSA, and am waiting for it to be considered, but wondering if anyone else has had similar experience or tips for resolving this sort of ludicrous situation. I'd prefer not to be personally responsible for a few thousand dollars in damage.
In Canada, you can appeal decisions of insurers to a private, "independent" ombudsperson, GIO Canada. It's funded by the insurers, hence my use of "independent". Anyway, we filed an appeal with them, and got a bit more traction with our argument. I'm now being forced to prove that the Jaguar XE is a standard Rental Auto offered by most of the Rental Agencies in Germany, where the vehicle was rented. Suffice to say, that that's going to be a bit of a pain.
If anyone has rented a Jaguar, from any agency in Germany, and would be willing to help provide proof (a redacted, recent rental record would likely work), please let me know. I'll maybe post this on other sub-forums as well, to see if anyone can help. I've done a ton of searching, and found that Sixt has Jaguar XEs in their German fleet (shoutout to Sixt for having such a detailed fleet guide: https://www.sixt.com/php/fleet/vehic...p_list_dynamic). Also, who knew that National rented Jaguar XEs in Croatia! I've also contacted all of the major agencies in Germany by email, but I'm not hopeful they'll provide details on their current or past German fleets including Jaguars. ha. I've also searched social media to see if anyone has posted photos of renting Jaguars in Germany...down the rabbit hole we go.
I'll provide a further update once I hear anything further. There's a FURTHER appeal mechanism within GIO Canada if they deny the appeal, before the potential for a Small Claims Court filing. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
Jul 28, 2018, 7:43 am
#45
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,122
This is the Hetz fleet in Germany: https://www.hertz.de/rentacar/vehicl...e%20Collection
Could it be under the prestige collection?
Could it be under the prestige collection?