SkinsFan0521

First, I asked again about refusing the FR and the CSR told me that I'm free to refuse it, my accounts will just be canceled. Since I don't have anything to hide, I accepted and already faxed them the information that they wanted, so hopefully it won't take too long. The last time I went through one of these, I only had to send the form for them to check my tax returns. This time, they want my bank statements too.

As far as if they differentiate between normal and coin purchases... absolutely. The CSR told me that buying coins and buying AMEX GC are considered "very high risk". I explained to him, that I know they have some sort of system/formula, but those coins are actually the least risk purchase I can buy since I can use them to pay off my balance every month.

He also told me that in addition to the coins & gift card purchases (which they cut me off from), the other big reasons for this are the fact that I have 4 new accounts since my last FR (including my first 2 business accounts) and I get them right up to the limit every month. I asked him why they give me limits that I obey and then I still get "in trouble" for following the rules. He didn't really have a good answer/explanation for that. He just repeated stuff about how they need to verify my information to be sure that they are comfortable with my level of risk, etc.

Last time I had one of these, it took like 2 weeks, this guy says that it would be over within a couple of days from me faxing in my information (not counting it being over the weekend of course). Has that changed or did the last guy who did this just drag his feet?? The guy who did mine in December was an all around a**hole, but this guy seems to very nice and reasonable. Maybe that's the difference. haha

lifeandmylens

I've had similar experiences, one was like a debt collector and one was just like a normal amex csr, very polite. Guess it's all luck of the draw. IIRC, it took about a week to complete each review.

4 new accounts all maxed out each month, plus coin and gift card purchases.. I can kinda see why the review happened Hope it goes smoothly!

SkinsFan0521

Yeah, I can understand where they're coming from in a way, but at the same time... If they don't want me to spend up to my limits every month, then perhaps they shouldn't have given them to me. Same goes for having 4 new accounts... just don't give them to me. Don't give them to me with limits and then when I use them up to those limits, tell me that there's something wrong with it.

In reality, I don't quite see what the problem is with what I'm buying. I pay my bills in full every month, never carried a balance, never had a late payment, etc. When everything is paid off, it shouldn't matter to them what shows up on my statement IMO.

But, yeah, I'm sure I'll get all my accounts back and have no issues (besides that I'm positive that my Business Gold card will go from "no pre-set limit" to a fixed limit"), it's just annoying that I stay within the "rules" and get flagged. I even asked what I can do in the future to prevent these from happening and he said that there isn't anything I can do because they have forumlas and things that take all kinds of things into account.

I'm going to be asking him to re-instate my ability to buy AMEX GC too... I'm quite annoyed that I can't buy them anymore with any credit card from any issuer!! lol

WBOTM

Coins and gift cards are typically high risk because of the potential for fraud. These "anonymous" cash and quasi-cash instruments (and high-end electronics) are what criminals typically purchase since they can be re-sold in the secondary market.

What happens if UPS mis-delivers those coins or the package is stolen? Most cardholders will call the card issuer to dispute the charge.

SkinsFan0521

Fair enough on the "lost or stolen" point, but I still disagree with them being high risk because of fraud. You are correct that if the coins get lost or stolen, I'll be filing a dispute w/them and also working with the Mint to get it cleared up. But, the same goes for anything that you buy on your card.

If fraud is actually what they were worried about, they'd call me to ask me if I am the one who purchased them and go on with their day. Not put me through another FR. Because, if I wanted to go out and buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of electronics, it shouldn't matter to them as long as I'm paying off my bill every month.

lifeandmylens

I'm guessing most the risk is derived from the fact that coins are basically a cash advance.

NickW

That.

The day before my statement closes, I spend $10,000 on a new TV, some nice clothes and a vacation. The day after my statement closes, I buy $10,000 in coins and use them to pay off the prior month statement...

From Amex's credit risk management point of view, I'd never be paying off that spending spree.

skofarrell

These are not basically a cash advance, they are precisely a cash advance.

Lot of things can happen:

You could get mugged on the way to the bank to deposit those coins.

You could have a habit and use the proceeds of cashing in the coins to feed that habit.

and as Nick points out, you could use the cash to kite your bills, or get further into debt by using the cash to make minimum payments.

Risk on these transactions abounds.

SkinsFan0521

Ok, so when you guys put it that way, I guess I see their point... haha

I guess the thing is, even though I'm not naive to these things, since those are things that I'm doing, it seems ridiculous to me that they're going after a "good" customer (me) when I'm the guy who pays off my bill every month and never carries a balance, etc. But, I do see what you're saying that I could be using them as a cash advance.

While I'm not doing it for that purpose, I do actually have the money deposited for quite a while before I pay off the bill just because of the timetable of when my statement closes and when my bill is due. I actually just keep that money in a checking account and don't even earn any interest on it (a FT "sin" I know!) so it's readily available to pay my CC bills when they come due w/o me having to remember to move money around on time.

So, anyway, I do understand where AMEX is coming from when you put things that way, but it bothers me since I'm NOT participating in these types of activities.

Hopefully, it'll all be cleared up by the middle of this week and I can continue to buy more coins!! haha

allga

The credit card people themselves aren't the only ones who aren't thrilled about your bumping up to the top of your account limits every month, even if you pay all bills in full and on time.

Doing that also hurts your credit score a bit. The credit bureaus much prefer you to be spending at about 25% to 50% of your credit limit, I guess to demonstrate to them that you always have a considerable credit cushion. I understand your argument that if you have a limit you should be allowed to fully use it. Ultimately, you can use it, but there are downsides. Maybe there shouldn't be, but there are.

That's just how it is.

SkinsFan0521

True, but I'm not going up the the limit on every credit card I own... I have lots of room left for my total utilization.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not at like 90% average over all my accounts or anything like that.

chasesfish

I don't know what everyone has their shorts in a wad over. I'm a commercial banker and its standard practice to get tax returns.

Amex decided they want to actually manage risk now that defaults are up. If you don't want to provide the information, then feel free to use another card.

popot53

Has anyone been in a situation where Amex was going to shutdown your accounts? Are you allowed to transfer your MR points out before they shut it down? If so how long do they give you before you lose the points? I ask, because I recently went through one and they asked for 3 months bank statements and the hold was released 2 days later. I'm sure it'll happen again, but in case I'm not so fortunate again, I'd like to be prepared.

Centurion

It is often suggested you do a search first before posting questions since many have been asked and answered more than once. The following quote is from Amex.....
<< If an enrollee later cancels enrolment, Points already earned that have not been redeemed for rewards or transferred to any participating Frequent Customer Programme, can be carried over for up to 30 days after cancellation. Any Points not redeemed by the end of 30 days after cancellation will be forfeited>>


PLEASE NOTE YOU MUST BE IN GOOD STANDING.. (pay everything you owe Amex on time).... Further Amex recently added a "claw back" close to almost all of their reward products. What that means that can take back points from they have already given you where you think they are untouchable.

Amex Rules from AmexPOINT FORFEITURE FOR LATE PAYMENT Back to top


If the amount due on any Linked charge Card account or the minimum amount due on any Linked credit Card account is not paid in full within one month of the closing date on the billing statement for that Linked account, points accrued in the program for that Linked account for that billing period may be forfeited.
For any Linked Card account for which points have been forfeited, once the Linked account returns to good standing, the forfeited points may be reinstated for a $29 fee for each month of points reinstated.
POINT FORFEITURE FOR ACCOUNT CANCELLATION Back to top


If for any reason we cancel any Linked Account (including because of your death, bankruptcy or insolvency), any points accrued in your program account will be forfeited. If we reinstate the Linked Account(s) within one year of cancellation, any points accrued in your program account may be converted into a participating Frequent Customer program or redeemed for a reward, provided all other conditions set forth herein have been met.
If you voluntarily cancel enrollment in the program or cancel all Linked Accounts enrolled in the program but keep at least one AMEX Card open and in good standing, you will have up to 30 days from date of cancellation to redeem the points accrued in the program account.
If you cancel a Linked Account and cancel all Cards that are issued by AMEX or its affiliates, all points accrued in the program account will be forfeited immediately.
If any Linked Account is not in good standing, your enrollment in the program may be canceled or the points accrued in your program account forfeited.

popot53

Thanks for the response, I have been researching, but didn't run by the 30 days rule.