jlc201

They are two sides of the same coin, namely AA management's refusal to post accurate updates of expected flight departure times. Whether it's not posting any delay for a flight that is scheduled to depart in 30 minutes but with a plane hasn't left the gate from an airport 2 hours away, or posting a 15-minute delay for the same flight and gradually increasing the delay in increments of 15-30 minutes, both are signs of fundamental dishonesty and a lack of respect for their customers. (And in many of these cases, there is no GA at the gate and no flight crew in sight, even when the flight is "scheduled" to depart in 20 minutes, suggesting that there are internal sources of information that more accurately reflect true departure times that the lowly passengers don't have access to.) It's all the same problem.

PHLGovFlyer

AA: We're experiencing rolling delays on a flight, but we can game the system by not passing that information to our customers or adjusting our real-time published information to reflect reality.

FA: I can find good information about the likelihood of a rolling delay for a flight from about a dozen public websites. Then I can game the system.

AA: FAs need to stop trying to game the system based on our gaming of the system.

And around and around we go...

DenverBrian

I would add "creeping delay" to the search for a more accurate picture.

EAJuggalo

Until the first delay is posted FAs can't bid on the delayed flight as it's assumed to be flown by the crew originally scheduled. Once the first delay is posted that will take the scheduled crew over time, it goes up for bid. If the delay doesn't get rolled, then whomever bids on it would fly it and their next scheduled flight. If it gets rolled there isn't enough rest between the two so they fly the bid and still get paid for their scheduled flight that they can't fly. In your scenario, had AA entered a realistic time, the scheduled crew would have timed out, the crew that bid on it would fly it and still be eligible for their next flight.

javabytes

19 here, 57 in the United forum

DenverBrian

...and then I'd look to posts per thousand or some such.

EXP100

Last night I'm the first to board on a RDU/MIA flight and when I try to board the system flashes red and the GA tells me to hold on. Then the Captain comes up says something to the GA, GA asked like 5 minutes and Captain says probably not. GA won't say what the pilot had said. So we just stand there for over 30 minute. Finally when pressed the GA said she can't reveal the reason for the delay because she isn't allowed to. Turns out the fueler lost control of the fuel nozzle sending fuel all over the tarmac and plane which took 90 minutes to clean up. As far as the topic at hand FAs make a calculated risk a flight will be cancelled. Why is that their problem?

iadisgreat

Without messages between flight attendants confirming this and given how AA does their delays (rolling almost all the time as discussed ad nauseum), I'm not sure how they can actually prove ill intent. Not to say that FAs don't do this with the intent to get that extra pay without flying it, but proving it sounds like an almost impossible task.

npretnar

How would FAs messaging amongst each other to game the system be wrong? Is there a clause in their contract saying they cannot do this?

iadisgreat

I never said it was wrong and frankly don't care; I'm guessing though there is some rule in the contract saying that FAs cannot bid for/pickup flights that they don't intend to fly - hence AA taking action on this.

PHLGovFlyer

I'm not a lawyer, but to my untrained eye it looks like the flight attendants can simply claim that they place their bids based on the information that AA publishes. If AA publishes inaccurate information about the likely extent of delays that's on AA, not on the FAs that are bidding based on that info.

AA could design their FA bidding software to prevent the majority of cases where FAs bid flights that they likely won't be able to legally fly. However, that software would need to be provided with accurate delay info.

S80

Edit: My understanding is the same

javabytes

Anyone looking to make this argument can feel free. But it’s far from in evidence that the number of posts regarding creeping/rolling delays is higher in the AA forums than elsewhere, let alone that this actually translates into AA actually having more. Not my burden to prove… some posters simply personally believed AA is the worst at this, and put forth the flimsiest of arguments (FT post count) in support, and even that data doesn’t back them up.

salsa

It is funny that AA accuses FAs of stealing when AA robs customers of the value of our time and the ability to make rational travel decisions by jerking us around with knowingly false information.

Absent a negotiated agreement on this issue between the company and the union, this matter will be resolved at arbitration (if AA tries to ban the practice unilaterally) or the next contract negations. It seems unlikely that an arbitrator would be sympathetic to getting AA out of a mess of its own making.

CMTinPHL

Or the current, eternally ongoing negotiations?