Repooc17

AA28 (LAX-JFK) N109NN and TJ235 (HPN-JFK) N235RB

I know a lot of factors go into each incident, and they are all unique, but sadly, these near misses are getting more and more common nowadays. It's painfully clear whatever the issue(s) is(are), we need to address them soon before a deadly tragedy.

tlglenn

Incidentally, the localizer frequencies are sufficiently dissimilar: 110.9 vs. 109.5. I can see how the PC-12 crew might've selected the wrong approach (ever scroll to and accidentally select a menu option next to the option you actually wanted?) and then failed to cross-reference the approach plates to verify the frequency.

pauleeepaul

I just wanted to know who flies from HPN to JFK

Hoi polloi

Same here. Even on a bad day, that's what - a 1 hour drive? Slightly more? Although, didn't United offer HPN-EWR in the past? (Granted that's a bit further, but still...)

Maybe it was just a repositioning flight?

DataPlumber

This happens more often that gets attention.

It's happened to me personally. At a class D airport, I was cleared to land on a lengthy final. There was a student with their CFI, they were on the downwind leg. Controller advised they were #2, following me, and call their base. They read back. I didn't think much of them, as they must still be on the downwind leg and there was no call for their base leg. They wound up cutting me off. The degree of separation was so little I could clearly see the instructor mouthing "OH @&^." I had to take evasive maneuvers. They then sheepishly called they were base turning final. The controller asked where I was, and the student didnt do as instructed.

I had a lengthy, heated, profanity laden conversation with that CFI once on the ground. I also called the FSDO.

Props to the AA crew for keeping cool and being situationally aware.

aisleorwindow

This is the other airline involved, for those who are interested: https://www.flytradewind.com/fleet/

Microwave

I've updated this thread's title to more accurately reflect its contents.

~Moderator

A321T

Glad nothing worse happened to the crew and pax, but also selfishly glad this didn't damage another A321T given AA isn't repairing them anymore.

Herb687

This was not a particularly "close call" and it was not even a loss of separation.

The Pilatus was VFR. AA was, obviously, IFR. While it was some very strange vectoring by the N90 controller, at no point was the required 500' vertical separation lost.

supermintyfresh

Someone commenting on the Youtube video claims to be the pilot, and said the TCAS was giving an advisory of 200 feet.

Herb687

I know that the altitude readouts gathered by sites like flightaware and flightradar24 are not authoritative but if you look at the Youtube video, GPD235 never descended below their last assigned altitude of 2500'. While it appears they intercepted the wrong localizer, they did not start the approach and descend from the last assigned 2500' that was legal separation from an IFR target at 2000'.

Also if AA was following a TCAS RA, their Mode S enhanced transponder would might alert on the N90 controller's scope. (Edited to add: Maybe. I need to brush up on this. I get confused with what change 7.1 does vs. Enhanced Flight ID. I'm pretty sure that while aircraft with the latest implementation of TCAS II (7.1) and Mode S/Enhanced Flight ID are able to annunciate TCAS RAs to ATC, not all ATC is able to receive that annunciation?)

(Edited to edit to add: the guiding principle here being that ATC should not give a contrary instruction to an aircraft following a TCAS RA)

The vectoring of GPD235 right over AA on final for the parallel was certainly a curious move by the N90 controller working final but nothing indicates legal VFR from IFR separation was ever lost.

PHL

If an A321, or any airliner for that matter, was damaged in a mid-air fender bender, there would be little of the aircraft left to repair. Aside from that, I'm not sure what you mean by AA not repairing A321's. Unless something happens to one that is deemed a total loss, I don't think AA is leaving any of their aircraft grounded.