LondonElite

Yes, this.

Dr. HFH

No. First, it's probably a safe bet that Citi is getting those miles at a steep discount. And since the credit card is an affinity card, I would imagine that AA is getting a percentage of the credit card spend. And, of course, AA has to provide the transportation which those miles can purchase, possibly even buying that transportation from a OneWorld partner airline. AA is very involved in AAdvantage transactions, including credit card signup bonuses.


This is irrelevant to the situation. AA hasn't increased the price of the ticket. The ticket was paid for with a private currency (AA miles) which never belonged to the OP. AA has cancelled the ticket and confiscated the miles due to abuse of the program. It hasn't raised the price of the ticket; and it isn't "requiring the passenger to pay additional money".

PHLGovFlyer

OP:

Simply let us know the details of the "well known work around that takes advantage of offers from Citi that do not have what normally would be restrictive wording." and how you utilized that work around. I'm pretty confident that the answer to all of your questions and issues lies within those details.

Dave Noble

The passenger hasn't paid for the ticket since the miles used to pay for the ticket have been confiscated - if paid by credit card and a dispute of the payment clawed back the payment of a ticket, the airline wouldn't have to honour the ticket

donotblink

The DOT only appears to have provisions for carriers to summarily cancel tickets for mistake fares. It doesn't appear that this was a mistake fare. The OP had an issued ticket. Canceling the OP's validly issued tickets is effectively "increasing the price of the ticket (and) requiring the passenger to pay additional money" to get a new valid ticket issued. To be clear i'm not making any argument about the OP's miles that were not already used in exchange for tickets being confiscated, but I think canceling issued tickets creates a dangerous precedent. These were not tickets that were purchased using someone else's stolen credit card, or with a bounced check. The OP had miles that were credited to his or her account and used them. They then make other refundable or nonrefundable travel plans. When someone purchases a ticket using any form of currency, they have a right and an expectation that the ticket purchased will be valid for transportation. They precedent they are setting would allow them to, for instance, look at oversold flights, and summarily cancel someone's validly issued ticket at a low price and claim that they can cancel any ticket at any time for any reason. That individual would then have to buy a new ticket at what would likely be a much higher fare because prices and availability change constantly and often go up closer to the flight time.

donotblink

Miles are deducted at the time the ticket is issued. The unused miles in the OP's account have been confiscated, but the miles used to pay for the tickets that have not been flown yet were no longer in the OPs account and had already been used.

JonNYC

The OP is -not- telling the whole story.

Therefore, any conclusions/theories/etc that are made simply based on what the OP has posted thus far (and extrapolating there from,) will be faulty.

ReinaDeLaSelva

Si, exactamente. This situation is very problematic not only for the OP, but for all AAdvantage members and pax in general because en primero the activity that triggered the confiscation is not clear to the account holder - many peoples are arguing it is the CC bonuses but if these were not obtained fraudulently and all in accord with Citi T&C then why and where does stop? y segundo, if ttickets are issued and paid for completely with nonfraudulent currency including millas per DOT page, then they are valid tickets per rule.

AA is draconian but they overreach and at some point, all pax benefit from pushback. AA likes nontransparent conditions they can use against customers in secretive and arbitrary ways, do you remember reading the letter sent by AA counsel to DOT after enforcement of RGN round 1 fares?

PayPal tries similar tactics but have experienced class action lawsuits regarding claimed T&C that were not published or transparent and account freezes.

Muchachos! If 1.7 milion millas accumlado in this way triggered the account forfeit, then why does it not happen with 1 million or 500K millas? How many of us have such balances? Where does it stop? Perhaps some of you think it's OK at this level but as the trigger number falls then the shoe is on the other foot. What happens when we buy $99 fares from LAX to MEX and AA decides secretly this is passed the "mistake" threshold? Then there will be mass pushback. At this time AA is bold because lack of pushback.

I do not dispute AA has the right to set conditions. But I believe such conditions must be made known to customers as they are exactly for all our ticket purchases. Look how many pages of small print describing B basic economy T&C! Very different from this...

I hope OP files complaint not only with DOT but with FTC regarding published T&C of award tickets and the invalidation in this secretive and underhand way.

danielonn

Unfortunately any account with any rewards program can be closed at any time for any reason without advanced notice. The AA Security team flagged the OP's account and followed the transactions and history and decided that the OP is violating the terms and conditions of the AA program. Now the OP could write in a letter to AA And perhaps a probationary period can be enacted whereby the OP must follow the rules to the T and no more infractions moving forward. But again AA has a business to run as do other hotels and airlines etc so AA feels that the OP is going against their business model.

While a warning letter would be nice that is a courtesy not a legal requirement. Also AA is under no obligation to serve the OP and their lawyers will stand by AA and if the OP could get a case going more than likely AA would win . Also AA could ban the OP from other One World carriers or allow the OP to book codeshares via Avios on AA. The OP I believe has little to no recourse if they admitted to doing something fishy. AA can easily look up the OP's post and others here.

The OP has other airlines but should not continue these practices with other airlines. I am sure there is more to the story because AA would not lock and deactivate an account there has to be some egregious activity like throw away ticketing or booking tickets for relatives and asking for compensation etc.

Often1

The DOT post purchase rule has nothing -- absolutely nothing -- to do with this situation. That rule covers increases in price after the purchase is complete. AA has not done that. It has simply determined that the payment method was invalid and has cancelled the ticket accordingly. OP remains free to purchase a ticket using some other form of payment.

CodeAdam10

It sounds like OP may have utilized Citi's "no language" app loophole to get sign up bonuses again and again. If and if this is the extent of OP's miles accumulation aside from flying or CC spend, it is rather unsettling that AA took this action.

And it also begs the question:

a) if AA acquired Citi's help for a joint-investigation, then why hasn't Citi shut down OP's accounts (afawk)?

Based on what we do know so far, this sounds way over the top.

MilesTalk

It wouldn’t make any sense that this is the whole story.

i still take exception to many of the posters here claiming that AA is in their rights to just unilaterally close any account they want. The account holder needs to violate a rule in the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions. When accounts are closed, there is always a reason that can be found in direct violation of terms.

Churning Citi cards, while perhaps a reason for a Citi account review, would not be a violation of any AA T&C.

If someone claims otherwise, please copy and paste the T&C you feel relevant.

richarddd

The general question is whether heavy credit card churning and similar actions are likely to lead to problems with AAdvantage. What do you think?

jerseytom

I don't see how it's news at all. If you're gaming a system you know there's a cumulative risk that the further you push it the greater the chance someone's going to get pissed about it and/or shut it down hard.

jbielsker

As an EXP you can hold award tickets within the 7-day window, but not paid.