Parker Threatens End of Changes/Change Fees to Non-Refundable Fares
Sep 19, 2018, 12:00 pm
#46
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold / OW Emerald
Posts: 753
I don't get the complaints. If you want a flexible ticket pay for it. If you want airlines to allow everyone to change for cheap, then everyone pays more.
I haven't had to change a ticket ever. I've been too sick to travel once in my life, and my insurance covered me. Get it together, maybe?
I haven't had to change a ticket ever. I've been too sick to travel once in my life, and my insurance covered me. Get it together, maybe?
Sep 19, 2018, 12:49 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler, *A Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hertz Five Star,
Posts: 1,301
Sep 19, 2018, 7:16 pm
#48
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
... "Abandon hope all ye who enter here." The Divine Comedy, Dante Alighieri (1265-1321)
The role of Charon shall be played in the 21st century by Douglas Parker.
A simple analogy.
If you don't get it, shame on your education and educators.
The role of Charon shall be played in the 21st century by Douglas Parker.
A simple analogy.
If you don't get it, shame on your education and educators.
Sep 19, 2018, 7:25 pm
#49
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,624
Except that AA is simply a business
As a customer, you can choose whether you want to use that business or another
No one is forced to book on AA - if it changes its fare rules so as not to be appealing - maybe the other carriers will have a better option
Also, it doesn't seem to be that AA is desiring to make changes, just that there is speculation on what will happen should a regulation be put in place that would restrict change fees
If this were to be brought in, I would suspect that AA and the other major carriers will all look at changes to help ensure that they keep the same margins
As a customer, you can choose whether you want to use that business or another
No one is forced to book on AA - if it changes its fare rules so as not to be appealing - maybe the other carriers will have a better option
Also, it doesn't seem to be that AA is desiring to make changes, just that there is speculation on what will happen should a regulation be put in place that would restrict change fees
If this were to be brought in, I would suspect that AA and the other major carriers will all look at changes to help ensure that they keep the same margins
Sep 19, 2018, 9:00 pm
#50
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, SkyMiles
Posts: 4,161
AA may already be tightening up its policy on change fees. A couple of months ago I made a change to a complex international itinerary. My motive for the change was that I wanted to return on a different day. But since there had been a time change on one of the partner codeshare segments on my original itinerary, the EXP agent was able to waive the change fee, which I am virtually certain she said would have been $200. A few days ago, with most of the trip already completed, I tried to make another change in the return portion of the same itinerary. I asked whether the change fee might once again be waived, since there had been a couple of further small involuntary changes to my itinerary. This time the EXP agent said there was no way to waive the change fee, which had somehow gone up to $250. "We received a memo recently that from now on in order to waive the change fee the reason needs to be something really serious."
Sep 20, 2018, 6:08 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: AA CK, SPG100 Platinum, Marriott Platinum Premier, Hilton Gold
Posts: 46
Except that AA is simply a business
As a customer, you can choose whether you want to use that business or another
No one is forced to book on AA - if it changes its fare rules so as not to be appealing - maybe the other carriers will have a better option
Also, it doesn't seem to be that AA is desiring to make changes, just that there is speculation on what will happen should a regulation be put in place that would restrict change fees
If this were to be brought in, I would suspect that AA and the other major carriers will all look at changes to help ensure that they keep the same margins
As a customer, you can choose whether you want to use that business or another
No one is forced to book on AA - if it changes its fare rules so as not to be appealing - maybe the other carriers will have a better option
Also, it doesn't seem to be that AA is desiring to make changes, just that there is speculation on what will happen should a regulation be put in place that would restrict change fees
If this were to be brought in, I would suspect that AA and the other major carriers will all look at changes to help ensure that they keep the same margins
it seems to me that the domestic airline industry behavior is very much like that of a collusive oligopoly. The prices and policies are just too similar to be a coincidence (It's not a coincidence that the big 3 all charge the same $200 change fee).
That said, I can live with the $200 change fee, though I believe the knife should cut both ways. If I have to pay $200 + fare difference to change to a 3 hour later flight, if there is a 3 hour delay that is the fault of the airline (maintenance, crew, etc.), I believe the airline should have to compensate each passenger on board $200 for the change. Such a delay has a significant impact on passengers, many with financial implications. While airline industry groups would balk claiming that they would have to raise fares for everyone, I do not believe that would be the case. I what you would see is that airline delays would be significantly reduced, simply because the airline would have a significant financial incentive to keep operations as efficient and consistent as possible.
Perhaps my experiences are the exception. However, as a frequent flier on AA, I try not to ponder all of the hours lost due to mechanical and other delays within the control of the airline. I did calculate in August this year, and it was in excess of 18 hours. What is a person's time worth? I recently had close to a 4 hour delay because they needed to change the brakes on an aircraft -- completely avoidable. And as far as I know, it really costed the airline very little. They offered zero compensation to anyone on board for the loss of their time. That's what I'd like to see congress address. In most (competitive) industries, such behavior is the recipe for losing customers.
Sep 20, 2018, 6:37 am
#52
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DL: Silver; AA: EX PLAT; UA: Silver; HY: DIA; HH: DIA; MR: TIT
Posts: 1,708
And I think it is very misleading to state that WN does not charge change fees. For anyone other than full-fare paying customers, it seems like there is ALWAYS a "fare difference" to pay.
Sep 20, 2018, 7:19 am
#53
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: delta,southwest--companion pass,hilton---diamond,marriott---gold,choice
Posts: 236
on the subject of change fees, I do not understand them it is purely a money grab in my opinion, why does it matter IF YOU SHOW UP FOR THE FLIGHT OR NOT, THE AIRLINE HAS ALREADY SOLD THE TICKET AT THE PRICE THEY WANTED FOR THAT PARTICULAR TIME SLOT, FLIGHT DAY, DESTINATION, ETC.... ETC..... SO WHY CHARGE A CHANGE FEE IF NOT JUST TO SQUEEZE MORE MONEY OUT OF THE PASSENGERS, LETS SAY THERE IS A 135 SEAT PLANE, JUST AN EXAMPLE AND 50 PEOPLE PEOPLE DO NOT SHOW UP, WELL THEY USE LESS FUEL, ETC.. AND THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR MONEY.... WHY NOT ADOPT THE SOUTHWEST MODEL LET THE MONEY STAY IN CYBERSPACE OR ON THE BOOKS FOR UP UNTIL 1 YEAR THEY HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN THE MONEY FOR THE SEAT, WHY CHARGE MORE IF NOT FOR GREED?
Sep 20, 2018, 8:18 am
#55
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: STL
Programs: DL - PM
Posts: 226
Dougie's argument might hold up if he wasn't allowed to oversell flights. But he's trying to talk out both sides of his mouth. He can't allow changes because of the potential revenue loss for empty seats, but he can still sell seats that are no longer available because they know there will be a certain number of no-shows.
Sep 20, 2018, 9:03 am
#56
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: AA CK, SPG100 Platinum, Marriott Platinum Premier, Hilton Gold
Posts: 46
Dougie's argument might hold up if he wasn't allowed to oversell flights. But he's trying to talk out both sides of his mouth. He can't allow changes because of the potential revenue loss for empty seats, but he can still sell seats that are no longer available because they know there will be a certain number of no-shows.
Overselling of airlines just bolsters the case against Doug's argument. If anything, it would help the airline in oversold situations.
I also agree with the person who said that if they do completely refuse changes, then the seat is MINE. You can't let someone else sit in it. I paid for it. If you give it to someone else, you are stealing from me. In fact, if you are able to seat another revenue passenger in that seat, remind me of the argument as to why it costs the airline money when someone changes?
It's profit maximization pure and simple. I'm just waiting for the "jetbridge access fee". Who wouldn't pay $25 for the luxury of boarding via jetbridge instead of stairs?
Let the un-bundling of the airfare continue!
Sep 20, 2018, 9:07 am
#57
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA EXP, AC, UAL, IB, BA
Posts: 12
Congress was behind allowing US Customers the 24-hr period to cancel a booking and I have utilized that many times since the law was passed. a Change fee I am not against, it's the price-gauging at the last-minute that I don't like. If one buys a ticket at $250 roundtrip and then simply wants to take an earlier flight home on that same day, then I don't think it's right they have to pay $200 to change PLUS the fare is now $1200!! I think that is more what consumers deep-down are upset about. Because in theory, the only reason that seat sold to begin with was because it was priced at $250. Many American airline consumers are budget-conscious and it stinks to be reamed last-minute. It's also one thing for solo business travelers who's company is reimbursing that change fee (or that buy full-fare economy to begin with) and another for a family of 4-5 on vacation. I know my brother always flies Southwest for that reason alone.
I think this is mostly an empty threat. Not allowing any changes to non-refundable tickets would:
A) put AA at a big competitive disadvantage relative to UA and DL and especially WN
B) lead people to book later, screwing up revenue management and likely lowering yields
C) increase "no shows" dramatically and further reduce yields and load factors as people who want to change but can't will likely not bother cancelling depriving AA of the ability to collect a change fee and resell the seat
I guess if the Big 3 all did this maybe it would stick, but doesn't seem likely.
That said, I don't think Congress should be regulating change fees. The government has a pretty poor track record when it comes to any kind of price control, especially when it comes to the airline industry.
The market will ultimately correct them in a far more efficient manner, although as someone who just paid 2 $200 change fees I kinda hope that happens sooner rather than later and in a sense it is, at least in my case, as I seem to flying Southwest more because I love the flexibility they in terms of changes.
A) put AA at a big competitive disadvantage relative to UA and DL and especially WN
B) lead people to book later, screwing up revenue management and likely lowering yields
C) increase "no shows" dramatically and further reduce yields and load factors as people who want to change but can't will likely not bother cancelling depriving AA of the ability to collect a change fee and resell the seat
I guess if the Big 3 all did this maybe it would stick, but doesn't seem likely.
That said, I don't think Congress should be regulating change fees. The government has a pretty poor track record when it comes to any kind of price control, especially when it comes to the airline industry.
The market will ultimately correct them in a far more efficient manner, although as someone who just paid 2 $200 change fees I kinda hope that happens sooner rather than later and in a sense it is, at least in my case, as I seem to flying Southwest more because I love the flexibility they in terms of changes.
Sep 20, 2018, 10:06 am
#58
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 170
$200 change fees create an interesting dynamic where maybe three times in the last year it's been cheaper for me to just buy a separate one way return ticket. In protest of the $200 change fee I still check in for the flight I won't be on.
Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 am
#59
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
Sep 20, 2018, 11:24 am
#60
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,625
On WN, it's just the fare difference. On the other airlines who charge change fees, it's the change fee PLUS the fare difference.