Antarius

I'll still take that to the IFE free 767s that have a abysmal dispatch reliability.

Tilto007

I had not thought of it that way.That certainly makes sense.Those 767's are truly ancient.

truthknown

But if you drop your passport on the side of seat, maintenance has to take the seat apart to get it... Don't be like me and waste an hour of your life after landing!

JDiver

Soon enough, you’ll probably see 787 aircraft at MIA. The (24) 763s are scheduled to retire after 2020, and AA has a firm order for 47 more (than originally ordered) 787s with further options for even more. See AA 2018-2020 Fleet Plan (FT thread).

The 788 Zodiac Seats are due an STCd fix for the “Motion over the ocean” issue, and the new 788s May come with BAE Rockwell Collins Super Diamonds after the AA-Zodiac fiasco and lawsuit

thunderlounge

I’m interested in seeing how any new 788’s are done. While I doubt they would dump the zodiac seats on existing aircraft, new deliveries are a different ballgame. Guess we’ll see what happens at some point.

Tilto007

Thanks for info,but I hope it is before 2020

JDiver

Zodiac Aerospace was manufacturing an AA special (cheaper, IMO) "Concept D Business Suite" version, not an OEM (which have some modification points anyway). Zodiac probably did not prioritize these and there were obviously QC issues debated between AA and Zodiac. The result was a slowdown in the refit schedule, to the point AA has brand new 787-8s sitting in the desert awaiting seats. They tried to get Boeing and the aircraft’s financiers to grant them to defer payment for the aircraft until they went into service, a request that was not granted.

Finally, AA sued Zodiac, and took some time to find another seat - the B/E Aerospace, now Rockwell Collins, Super Diamond for the 787-9 and the majority of the 777-223ER fleet. A long winded way of saying I doubt Zodiac is a contender, and that we will likely end up with a split 788 fleet, much like the 772 fleet, some Zodes and some Rockwell Collins. This will be a PITA to pax such as you and me, and particularly until AA gets an STCd design to fix the motion over the ocean Concept D trash.

thunderlounge

I agree it was quite the mess for sure, as well as having a split fleet that would cause further confusion.

JDiver

My dream is AA could recover sufficient money from Zodiac and establish sufficient savings for the modifications and maintenance to the Zodiac seats they could justify refitting the Super Diamonds to the entire 772 and 788 fleets. Pipe dream most likely, but...

thunderlounge

Maybe it is, but then maybe there is an outside chance. They did hold up the zodiac 772’s, although that is pure speculation on my part. They could make the change with the PE fit, but quite unlikely. It would be nice though.

USFlyerUS

FWIW, some of the 772s are older than some of the 763s. They just seem ancient based on how they are configured, but the frames themselves are in some cases younger than 772s and some narrowbodies.

FlyingEgghead

From a business perspective, "establish sufficient savings" is relevant but "recover sufficient money" is not. The money already lost on the Zodiac mess is a sunk cost (and it hardly left AA destitute); replacing the seats has approximately nothing to do with recovering that cost.

AA will allocate investments based on return on capital. A hypothetical X million dollars recovered from Zodiac would be used on whatever is AA's best marginal investment, unlikely to have anything to do with the Zodiac seats. In other words, replacing the seats is independent from any action against Zodiac; each decision is managed based on its prospective costs and payoffs.

The only exception would be if somehow the decision whether or not to replace the seats affected AA's legal argument against Zodiac or the terms of a settlement.

JDiver

That’s exactly one factor I was thinking of: the Zodiac settlement with AA firbfsilure to meet specifications and production schedules, causing measurable harm to revenue.