Non-Stop Screaming/Crying Infant on International Flight
#76
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,951
And you are missing the point. A child that screams for a prolonged period of time is an abnormal event and one most likely avoided. The issue isn't the short crying fits children can have. The parents had an obligation to calm the child or to not fly if the child was physically or emotionally unfit to travel. Physically or emotionally unfit children are not secrets and they do not appear magically. If the guardian is aware of the condition and still flies, the guardian is responsible for the noise event.
Most likely, that same kid is perfectly content most of the time (ie only short bouts of unhappiness) on nine flights out of ten. My daughter certainly is. But I don’t have much ability to predict when she’ll be an absolute turd. And I certainly can’t predict her mood on a travel day weeks or months in advance when I buy the ticket.
And by the way, sometimes letting the kid fuss is good parenting. If the kid wants attention and gets it by screaming, rewarding the behavior with attention and comfort is not going to make the behavior less common in the future or for the rest of the flight. Sometimes it’s really hard to know what the best course of parenting is. If you’ve figured it out, please enlighten me! I sure haven’t got the parenting thing perfectly down, so I try not to judge other parents from afar.
#77
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Roswell, GA
Programs: AA EXP 2.8m,Lifetime PLT, Hilton Diamond, IHG PlLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 3,193
I have been on many flights with babies crying, noticed its at takeoff and again during landing, babies, are babies,, they will cry when they are .. hungry, sleepy, diaper needs changing, and of course pressure changes in their ears.
just remember we were all babies once, (well my wife says I still am, but not the crying part)
just remember we were all babies once, (well my wife says I still am, but not the crying part)
#78
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Venice, Florida
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,607
That part where you said you tried every trick in the book? That's all we can ask. You tried. OP is saying that the family ignored the baby's cries, which I fully believe because I've seen those parents. Heck, I have a friend who didn't even scold his daughter when she threw a toy across a coffee shop once. He just ran and played fetch like an obedient puppy. I was mortified and haven't invited him for coffee since.
#79
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: RDU
Programs: AS MVP 75k, *G LT, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 62
That's an interesting observation. My parents told me horror stories about my behavior when they took me to places where I really did not want to be. I apparently tended to scream the entire time and when I was a toddler I also ran amok and threw things around. It usually happened when I was confined to a dense space with many people around - subways/trains/buses but also narrow aisles in a busy grocery store. They left me back with my grandparents when they went shopping or to a place they could not drive to, which was what I really wanted, I guess. I was 12 years old before they took me on a flight with them.
#80
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver, Amex Platinum
Posts: 149
Saying that infants or children should be banned from flights or premium cabins because they sometimes cry is just as ridiculous as saying that adults should be banned because some of them get drunk and shouty from time to time. I’m sure most parents would be trying everything they can to calm a crying infant down. Why would you not?
My kids have both flown with us from a few weeks old and are definitely better behaved than most adults in premium cabins.
If it was me in the OP’s situation I’d put my headphones on or a set of earplugs and not get worked up about it. It’s public transport after all, and they’re not breaking any rules, as the airline has rightly pointed out.
My kids have both flown with us from a few weeks old and are definitely better behaved than most adults in premium cabins.
If it was me in the OP’s situation I’d put my headphones on or a set of earplugs and not get worked up about it. It’s public transport after all, and they’re not breaking any rules, as the airline has rightly pointed out.
#81
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: JFK/LGA
Programs: AA EXP/5 MM, BA Blue Bayou, HH LT Diamond
Posts: 5,828
I was on this flight 15-20 times at the end of the MD-11 era. Thankfully most of the travel was in J. I did have one memorable flight in Y. The whole cabin seemed to be full of Eastern European tourists (who i suspect were not Finnish) who broke open their substantial duty free purchases and a raucous party ensued across the North Atlantic. The FAs tried to calm things down but then gave up and hid. A crying baby or two would have been a blessing.
#82
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,586
And you are missing the point. A child that screams for a prolonged period of time is an abnormal event and one most likely avoided. The issue isn't the short crying fits children can have. The parents had an obligation to calm the child or to not fly if the child was physically or emotionally unfit to travel. Physically or emotionally unfit children are not secrets and they do not appear magically. If the guardian is aware of the condition and still flies, the guardian is responsible for the noise event.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
I never said that the parents don't have a responsibility for their children. Of course parents are responsible for their children.
In no sense does that responsibility extend to an airline having to compensate passengers for crying babies. That's an absurd leap. And no, there's not "vicarious liability" for a crying child.
It's also a massive leap to say the child in question was "physically or emotionally unfit." Or that the airline would have any way of knowing that even if it were true.
Remember we only have the OP's account of situation - and OP obviously had an agenda with the post.
The idea that airlines are going to start banning children (or should) is laughable. There are a scant few airlines that designate child seating areas. And I know of none that ban them from J cabins.
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At this point what does this thread have to do with AA? It's a he-said dramatization of an incident on a JAL flight...
#83
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MSP
Posts: 398
Speaking of infants in premium cabins... one of my favorite pictures of my daughter.
Babies cry on airplanes. Its is a part of life. If the parents did absolutely nothing, I could sympathize with OP. However, I highly doubt the parents did nothing.
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,909
while its up to them how to raise their kids it would be nice to have less rigidity in pablic spaces as courtesy to other pax...
#85
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New York, New York
Programs: AA Gold, Alaska MVP; Free Agent Super Duper Diamond Treasure Chest ;)
Posts: 4,682
Parents take offense to suggestions of drugging their kids for your enjoyment!? Pesky!
#86
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956
That's an interesting observation. My parents told me horror stories about my behavior when they took me to places where I really did not want to be. I apparently tended to scream the entire time and when I was a toddler I also ran amok and threw things around. It usually happened when I was confined to a dense space with many people around - subways/trains/buses but also narrow aisles in a busy grocery store. They left me back with my grandparents when they went shopping or to a place they could not drive to, which was what I really wanted, I guess. I was 12 years old before they took me on a flight with them.
#88
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 91
As a parent and an XP, I can see both sides of the debate.
That said, I am generally much more upset with unruly children (wandering unsupervised up and down aisles, banging or kicking seats) much more than crying babies. One realistically can't be completely controlled. The other can be.
That said, I am generally much more upset with unruly children (wandering unsupervised up and down aisles, banging or kicking seats) much more than crying babies. One realistically can't be completely controlled. The other can be.
#89
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: Several...
Posts: 175
I had the same experience on a LH flight from CLT to MUC - the longest mentally challenging flight of my life. Everyone has a different level of sensory aversion/defensiveness and I am a mom, so I get that you can't always console your child. They might have inner ear problems or some other discomfort that they can't articulate because they are...well...babies. I think it's impractical to ban children from flights as this seems a bit draconian. But, I empathize with your frustration. Listening to a screaming child for hours and hours is like torture and can definitely push the limits of your emotional intelligence. I also agree that the noise cancelling devices don't seem to be made for baby decibels. It would be awesome if they had a lavoratory type space that was sound proof so you can usher the baby in there until they stopped.
I'd like to stick the snorers in there as well!
I'd like to stick the snorers in there as well!
#90
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MDE
Programs: AA-PLT, HH-GLD, PP
Posts: 1,511
As a parent and an XP, I can see both sides of the debate.
That said, I am generally much more upset with unruly children (wandering unsupervised up and down aisles, banging or kicking seats) much more than crying babies. One realistically can't be completely controlled. The other can be.
That said, I am generally much more upset with unruly children (wandering unsupervised up and down aisles, banging or kicking seats) much more than crying babies. One realistically can't be completely controlled. The other can be.
I rarely see parents who don't try at all, but I witnessed a doozy a couple of years ago in J on a 767 from MIA to ORD. A father, mother, and four kids ranging from baby to about nine years old. The baby was quiet. The other three were running up and down the aisles screaming. When the FA politely asked the father to have his children sit down, he literally said, "With what I paid for this flight, why should I have to take care of my kids?" He was a jerk for the entire flight, complaining about everything that did not meet his imagined standard that was roughly equivalent to flying in int'l F. He made it clear that he was going to file a complaint about the flight attendant when we landed. Fortunately, I was in a position to hang around at the gate and make sure the supervisor who received the complaint was informed that the FA and the rest of the flight crew had been nothing but professional and exhibited amazing patience with that customer during the entire flight.
My suggestion to parents is to try to get bulkhead. At least that way you don't have to worry about the kids kicking the seats in front of them and they can get down on the floor to play. The other alternative I've used is for members of the family to have the seats in front of the little ones so we keep the suffering in the family. It's actually tough for little kids not to kick the seats - when they are strapped in their legs stick straight out.