AA Travel Visa Errors and Issues for Two Honeymooners
Dec 13, 2017, 5:10 am
#91
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Programs: AA EXP, TK Elite, HH Gold, SPG/Marriott Gold
Posts: 939
One of the key factors in trying to get AA to accept responsibility for denying boarding is so that we do not have to just live with it. They are in the business of transporting people. Lisa did all the footwork to make sure that she had proper documentation and then because of a misinterpretation, it threw their honeymoon into a turmoil. When you do everything right and the airlines screws up, one should not have to live with it.
One should not expect every agent in every city to understand visa documents but they should be able
to consult with an expert on call to confirm. I do not expect a check-in agent at a small airport in Turkey
to understand TWOV rules for example so this is not just a US problem but it can be easily resolved by
having a "visa desk" to call if you are not sure...
Dec 13, 2017, 5:33 am
#92
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
The sad (maybe?) thing here is that all I'm taking away is a reinforcement of my lack of desire to ever fly AA on an international route. I have never had any issues with the big boy airlines sorting this kind of stuff out. You don't think the ME3/BA/LH/etc. see a couple different types of visas every once in a while over there? And yet the sky hasn't fallen for them...
Dec 13, 2017, 6:10 am
#93
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Programs: AA EXP, TK Elite, HH Gold, SPG/Marriott Gold
Posts: 939
The sad (maybe?) thing here is that all I'm taking away is a reinforcement of my lack of desire to ever fly AA on an international route. I have never had any issues with the big boy airlines sorting this kind of stuff out. You don't think the ME3/BA/LH/etc. see a couple different types of visas every once in a while over there? And yet the sky hasn't fallen for them...
anything but I have seen it happen in other airlines as well. (Search FT and you will find others too)
Dec 13, 2017, 9:11 am
#94
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Did the agent in Iowa call anyone in DFW or just make a local decision ? That sounds like a poor process for AA.
One should not expect every agent in every city to understand visa documents but they should be able
to consult with an expert on call to confirm. I do not expect a check-in agent at a small airport in Turkey
to understand TWOV rules for example so this is not just a US problem but it can be easily resolved by
having a "visa desk" to call if you are not sure...
One should not expect every agent in every city to understand visa documents but they should be able
to consult with an expert on call to confirm. I do not expect a check-in agent at a small airport in Turkey
to understand TWOV rules for example so this is not just a US problem but it can be easily resolved by
having a "visa desk" to call if you are not sure...
Airline employees tend to think they know everything and, if they really don't, they seem to be encouraged to make up rules. This is the fundamental problem IMO.
Dec 13, 2017, 3:55 pm
#95
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: American, United, Southwest
Posts: 10
Sent one last letter to American via the VP's. They had customer relations send a letter refusing to provide full compensation as we used another airline. So, are they saying that yes they were at fault? We only used another airline as it was going to cost $6000 for the flight to France, plus additional money for the flight Paris to Rome (original flight $2000). Who has $6000 plus to spend last minute? That is why we went with United as we had frequent flier miles. They are now willing to pay for the hotel bill and cost of the tour for the first day that was missed with receipts.
Dec 13, 2017, 4:09 pm
#96
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver/ows, CX AsiaMiles (not even GR anymore!) missing my GO days
Posts: 1,581
What are your relatives asking for at this point, exactly? AA is not going to be able to replace the United miles your relatives used, although if you want to ask for a fair cash value for those tickets that might be a possibility. If AA is admitting they owe for the hotel and tour that's a major step.
Dec 13, 2017, 4:54 pm
#97
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Over the North Atlantic
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 494
Can't completely automate unless you define some format for visas (including documents that can substitute for visas such as national identity cards or residence permits/cards) akin to biometric passports. I can imagine getting the 192 ICAO member states to agree to this will be troublesome.
And if you don't have a stand-alone visa sticker/document (e.g. Australia, where the visa holder's non-Australian passport is the identity document and Aus govt provides a service to verify the non-Australian is a visa holder), the check-in system will have to learn to query that country's visa database, or the database has to be re-implemented to meet new ICAO standards.
Furthermore any country-specific check e.g. show return ticket, proof of funds, immunisation certificate, sight birth certificate for children (South Africa) etc. will have to be catered for.
So you're still going to need a human troubleshooter.
I can then imagine an angle for fee rorting - if your documents fail to pass through the automated identity check, $/EUR 10 manual processing fee.
P.S. ICAO has mooted the idea of standardised visas and evisas. In fact the Schengen C visa already complies with Doc 9303 MRV-B https://www.icao.int/Meetings/AMC/MR...-VisaeVisa.pdf
And if you don't have a stand-alone visa sticker/document (e.g. Australia, where the visa holder's non-Australian passport is the identity document and Aus govt provides a service to verify the non-Australian is a visa holder), the check-in system will have to learn to query that country's visa database, or the database has to be re-implemented to meet new ICAO standards.
Furthermore any country-specific check e.g. show return ticket, proof of funds, immunisation certificate, sight birth certificate for children (South Africa) etc. will have to be catered for.
So you're still going to need a human troubleshooter.
I can then imagine an angle for fee rorting - if your documents fail to pass through the automated identity check, $/EUR 10 manual processing fee.
P.S. ICAO has mooted the idea of standardised visas and evisas. In fact the Schengen C visa already complies with Doc 9303 MRV-B https://www.icao.int/Meetings/AMC/MR...-VisaeVisa.pdf
Of course there should still be a manual backup for the extremely rare cases or when the documents are not readable by the machines.
Dec 14, 2017, 5:03 am
#99
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,181
I know this has been said before but just a reminder you also need to make sure that the original returns are still intact. Since the first part of the ticket wasn't used (AA's fault), the return may have been cancelled. Make sure your work with the VPs clarifies that their return tickets are still good before they go to the airport or they may end up with another attempt to collect more money from you (and/or no space on busy holiday flights). Personally I would ask for either a refund of half the ticket (so $1000) since you used United FF miles to get to Europe or the equivalent AA miles (if you feel you want them). Plus I really think AA should kick in something major like an upgrade to biz on the return for all the trouble they put you through. But obviously you will have to request that before the return.
Dec 14, 2017, 5:38 am
#100
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
Right. But until if and when the EU does that, in the meantime there are millions of visas out there with the current wording, and the airlines need to deal with that reality.
Dec 14, 2017, 6:20 am
#101
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US
Programs: AA/UA/DL
Posts: 2,773
Have you ever seen a Schengen VISA? Have you ever seen a Schengen visa listed that the visa only valid for certain Schengen states only? It’s always issued by the country you entry first or the country you stay longest as far as I know.
Dec 14, 2017, 8:50 am
#102
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,106
FWIW, I think Timitac has had some sort of change in how explicit it is for Schengen issues this year.
I am a US citizen living in Spain and used to just show my passport for my flights home with no issue. Ever since about last summer, my flight with no return to Spain/Schengen has had agents asking for my visa and then being baffled upon seeing my residence card.
Used to be extremely rare to be asked for it and if it happened it was someone who was competent and just took a glance at the card and knew it was fine instantly.
And I've had this on EK/BA/AA and IB of all airlines (you'd think they'd know a Spanish residence card, but alas...).
I am a US citizen living in Spain and used to just show my passport for my flights home with no issue. Ever since about last summer, my flight with no return to Spain/Schengen has had agents asking for my visa and then being baffled upon seeing my residence card.
Used to be extremely rare to be asked for it and if it happened it was someone who was competent and just took a glance at the card and knew it was fine instantly.
And I've had this on EK/BA/AA and IB of all airlines (you'd think they'd know a Spanish residence card, but alas...).
Dec 14, 2017, 10:14 am
#103
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Over the North Atlantic
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 494
That is true. Until then how hard can it be to train agents to look for the word Schengen? No matter the language, the keyword Schengen is there.
Dec 14, 2017, 10:37 am
#104
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After all, once issued, you can use it to enter into any Schengen country.
Dec 14, 2017, 10:45 am
#105
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After all, once issued, you can use it to enter into Schengen from any country.That said, AA is responsible. If they are confused by Tiamtic, that is not the customer's problem. AA is who the travel was booked through. it is not up to the customer to deal with AA's contractors. It is up to AA to fix this.
IMHO, that would involves reimbursement for additional or unused hotel expense, as well as fair compensation between any refund and the value of the miles used to replace the travel.
If the people at non-hubs are not qualified to make this simple decision than they either need to verify it before denying travel or to allow the pax to at least travel to the hub, where (hopefully) there are people who know how to handle this.
At least OP had a fallback. At lot of people would not have had this option and would have probably missed their entire trip