Thousands of December AA flights scheduled without pilots?
Dec 1, 2017, 1:23 pm
#241
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
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Posts: 8,184
The union and management should agree to table the talks on this until after this situation has passed, and then bargain after.
Dec 1, 2017, 1:32 pm
#242
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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1) Your company, lets called it Widget Manufacturing makes widgets.
2) A big company, lets call it All American Purchasing purchases widgets from you. The number varies each month, but the price is fixed. Mid-November, they call and say, "hey, we don't need 15,000 widgets like we thought, we only need 10,000. Do what you want with the other 5,000 widgets". You say, "ok, we'll sell those widgets to someone else" and you do. You don't have any widgets left.
3) All American Purchases realizes at the end of November they made a mistake and need 15,000 widgets. They demand 5,000 widgets and say they'll pay 50% extra but won't put it in writing. "Trust us" though only 35% of the their own employees trust their own company in a recent survey.
What would you do? Would you try and squeeze out some extra because they are in a pickle? Would you insist on a signed contract for the 50% extra before making 5,000 extra widgets?
Dec 1, 2017, 3:05 pm
#243
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP, SPG / Marriott GLD, HHonors GLD
Posts: 520
Looks like they came together
Earlier this week, American Airlines shared that a processing error resulted in some concern as to whether our flights over the December holidays would have adequate pilot staffing. We are pleased to report that together, American and the Allied Pilots Association have put that worry to rest to make sure our flights will operate as scheduled. By working together, we can assure customers that among the many stresses of the season, worrying about a canceled flight won’t be one of them. In short, if Santa is flying, so is American. Much appreciation to APA President Capt. Dan Carey and our 15,000 professional aviators who are doing their part to cover the holiday schedule and beyond. As always, when there’s a need, the American Airlines team comes together to take care of each other and our customers.
http://news.aa.com/press-releases/pr...n/default.aspx
Earlier this week, American Airlines shared that a processing error resulted in some concern as to whether our flights over the December holidays would have adequate pilot staffing. We are pleased to report that together, American and the Allied Pilots Association have put that worry to rest to make sure our flights will operate as scheduled. By working together, we can assure customers that among the many stresses of the season, worrying about a canceled flight won’t be one of them. In short, if Santa is flying, so is American. Much appreciation to APA President Capt. Dan Carey and our 15,000 professional aviators who are doing their part to cover the holiday schedule and beyond. As always, when there’s a need, the American Airlines team comes together to take care of each other and our customers.
http://news.aa.com/press-releases/pr...n/default.aspx
Dec 1, 2017, 3:14 pm
#244
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
Here's another take on the situation:
1) Your company, lets called it Widget Manufacturing makes widgets.
2) A big company, lets call it All American Purchasing purchases widgets from you. The number varies each month, but the price is fixed. Mid-November, they call and say, "hey, we don't need 15,000 widgets like we thought, we only need 10,000. Do what you want with the other 5,000 widgets". You say, "ok, we'll sell those widgets to someone else" and you do. You don't have any widgets left.
3) All American Purchases realizes at the end of November they made a mistake and need 15,000 widgets. They demand 5,000 widgets and say they'll pay 50% extra but won't put it in writing. "Trust us" though only 35% of the their own employees trust their own company in a recent survey.
What would you do? Would you try and squeeze out some extra because they are in a pickle? Would you insist on a signed contract for the 50% extra before making 5,000 extra widgets?
1) Your company, lets called it Widget Manufacturing makes widgets.
2) A big company, lets call it All American Purchasing purchases widgets from you. The number varies each month, but the price is fixed. Mid-November, they call and say, "hey, we don't need 15,000 widgets like we thought, we only need 10,000. Do what you want with the other 5,000 widgets". You say, "ok, we'll sell those widgets to someone else" and you do. You don't have any widgets left.
3) All American Purchases realizes at the end of November they made a mistake and need 15,000 widgets. They demand 5,000 widgets and say they'll pay 50% extra but won't put it in writing. "Trust us" though only 35% of the their own employees trust their own company in a recent survey.
What would you do? Would you try and squeeze out some extra because they are in a pickle? Would you insist on a signed contract for the 50% extra before making 5,000 extra widgets?
Dec 1, 2017, 5:53 pm
#246
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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They are/were negotiating on only how to resolve the situation. Are you saying they should have grounded the planes until after the situation had passed and then bargain as to how to resolve the situation afterwards????
Dec 1, 2017, 11:45 pm
#251
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
Agreement in principle. That's what you always have when you walk out of a successful negotiation. It takes a little more time to draft the language and get it approved by the lawyers on both sides. Their job is to get the language down that reflects the concepts that the negotiators agreed to.
Dec 2, 2017, 7:50 am
#252
Join Date: May 2010
Location: TPA
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Posts: 2,207
The NY Times published a statement from the union that AA had offered 1.5x for pilots to come back. That same person said that the airline wasn't permitted to make such an offer. Seems pretty clear to me - as an impartial person in this matter with no AA bookings nor airline employment - that AA mgt had made an attempt to rectify the situation and that the union was the blocker (at least at that point) (by their own admission). I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your view, but it is, nonetheless, a reasonable conclusion.
The matter is settled. And the thread has devolved away from any discussion on AA's system issue (on both sides). Time to close the thread, no?
Last edited by TBD; Dec 2, 2017 at 8:02 am
Dec 2, 2017, 8:10 am
#253
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,664
Are you APA President Captain Dan Carey? I'll assume you're not and so weren't in these negotiations with AA yourself.
The NY Times published a statement from the union that AA had offered 1.5x for pilots to come back. That same person said that the airline wasn't permitted to make such an offer. Seems pretty clear to me - as an impartial person in this matter with no AA bookings nor airline employment - that AA mgt had made an attempt to rectify the situation and that the union was the blocker (at least at that point) (by their own admission). I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your view, but it is, nonetheless, a reasonable conclusion.
The matter is settled. And the thread has devolved away from any discussion on AA's system issue (on both sides). Time to close the thread, no?
The NY Times published a statement from the union that AA had offered 1.5x for pilots to come back. That same person said that the airline wasn't permitted to make such an offer. Seems pretty clear to me - as an impartial person in this matter with no AA bookings nor airline employment - that AA mgt had made an attempt to rectify the situation and that the union was the blocker (at least at that point) (by their own admission). I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your view, but it is, nonetheless, a reasonable conclusion.
The matter is settled. And the thread has devolved away from any discussion on AA's system issue (on both sides). Time to close the thread, no?
Dec 2, 2017, 8:37 am
#254
Join Date: May 2010
Location: TPA
Programs: All The Programs
Posts: 2,207
Please explain "could not legally make". What law prevented AA from offering 1.5x? Contracts are (usually) a civil (not criminal) matter.
