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-   -   Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1861355-speculation-will-aa-continue-pull-back-nyc.html)

ashill Aug 21, 2018 6:08 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30110811)
AA cuts DUB and EDI from JFK (also cut PAP).

EDI at least was a pmUS PHL route that AA moved to JFK after the merger. They're moving it back now.

jordyn Aug 21, 2018 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by cedric (Post 30112481)
That goes against what was mentioned in the video accompanying today's press release. JFK was briefly mentioned and AA's goal is to focus on business markets from JFK.

Well they just cut service to Frankfurt and added it to Dubrovnik, is the goal that Philly is supposed to focus on leisure markets by cutting business routes and not replacing them anywhere?

As for JFK, killing the ZRH route is not a great example of attempting to focus on business markets.

Seems very hard to work out any sort of strategy here. Clearly they want to focus trans-Atlantic flying through Philly, but route selection remains a mystery and I have no idea how they think they're going to maintain any sort of foothold on the NYC market by hacking away at the route network. Maybe they should just sell the JFK slots to United--I hear that they figured out leaving was a bad idea despite the strong presence at EWR.

Fanjet Aug 22, 2018 12:51 am


Originally Posted by andersonCooper (Post 30112708)
I can't buy too much in that statement since they pulled ZRH, FRA and now DUB out. Business market to LAX/SFO maybe.

They were not serving JFK-FRA. And if the soon-to-be-axed seasonal PHL-FRA route was such a business route, it would not have been made a seasonal route a couple of years ago.

jasondc Aug 22, 2018 7:25 am

They served JFKFRA briefly, VERY briefly, in the 1990s then around 2001 I think. Some people are still complaining that it is gone. Time to move on. And yes - if PHLFRA had been so successful year round, they would have kept it year round.

The point is, for the most part, flights to German business centers such as FRA and MUC are HIGHLY dependent on the German corporate point of sale. AA cannot touch it - they all go to LH and UA. There's a reason UA does well in FRA and MUC and the others have far less success. It's their relationship with Lufthansa. Germans are very brand loyal, and that's it.


Originally Posted by Fanjet (Post 30113887)
They were not serving JFK-FRA. And if the soon-to-be-axed seasonal PHL-FRA route was such a business route, it would not have been made a seasonal route a couple of years ago.


andersonCooper Aug 22, 2018 7:27 am


Originally Posted by Fanjet (Post 30113887)
They were not serving JFK-FRA. And if the soon-to-be-axed seasonal PHL-FRA route was such a business route, it would not have been made a seasonal route a couple of years ago.

and now we are saying FRA is not a business route. While you are right in pointing out AA has never offered JFK - FRA, I believe posts above already answered the question: it is partly because AA that served the business routes with outdated AC which pushed business pax to UA/DL/*A/ST, not the routes per se not business.

Austin787 Aug 22, 2018 8:26 am


Originally Posted by jasondc (Post 30114863)
The point is, for the most part, flights to German business centers such as FRA and MUC are HIGHLY dependent on the German corporate point of sale. AA cannot touch it - they all go to LH and UA. There's a reason UA does well in FRA and MUC and the others have far less success. It's their relationship with Lufthansa. Germans are very brand loyal, and that's it.

Delta makes its Germany routes work.

jasondc Aug 22, 2018 9:12 am

They do, and AA does from DFW and CLT. DL does from markets that it owns (DTW and ATL) and is willing to deal with JFK. Maybe they have a corporate contract in NYC that helps it. Delta has also been in Germany for nearly 40 years and has worked at building a point of sale strength there to get some of the German point of Sale. AA has been trying for less time, and for the most part has failed to capture the German point of sale corporate market, for whatever the reason.
Not all airlines can be all things to all people, and you see that in the various decisions that each carrier has to make as they're figuring out how to most profitably allocate their resources.


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 30115145)
Delta makes its Germany routes work.


FlyerWx Aug 22, 2018 10:10 am


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 30115145)
Delta makes its Germany routes work.

Its also worth noting that Delta had a hub in FRA (that it acquired from PanAm) in the early 1990s.

I don't think it's the main reason though. It may have contributed to their relative success.

SamOF Aug 22, 2018 11:40 am


Originally Posted by FlyerWx (Post 30115635)
Its also worth noting that Delta had a hub in FRA (that it acquired from PanAm) in the early 1990s.

I don't think it's the main reason though. It may have contributed to their relative success.

Delta also has or has had flights to more German markets than AA has had consistently--TXL, STR, DUS in addition to MUC and FRA.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George Aug 22, 2018 11:51 am

What JFK routes will now be left in the Caribbean? Maybe just STT? Seems like domestic from JFK will be LAX, SFO, MIA with a once a day to/from SAN, SEA and LAS, token 1 or 2 a day to CLT, DFW, ORD and whatever remains of Eagle.

Adelphos Aug 22, 2018 12:07 pm


Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge (Post 30116078)
What JFK routes will now be left in the Caribbean? Maybe just STT? Seems like domestic from JFK will be LAX, SFO, MIA with a once a day to/from SAN, SEA and LAS, token 1 or 2 a day to CLT, DFW, ORD and whatever remains of Eagle.

I think they are increasing their frequencies to DFW to 4 a day. They also do flights like MCO, BOS (mainline, not eagle), DCA (mainline) from JFK.

jordyn Aug 22, 2018 12:17 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30116159)
I think they are increasing their frequencies to DFW to 4 a day.

I totally don't understand these. Is AA's target market here people from southern Queens and Long Island who have business in Dallas? Most people from the New York Metro area are going to prefer the plentiful LGA flights. Putting flights to a hub within the LGA perimeter at DFW seems like a huge waste of a JFK slot.

uxb Aug 22, 2018 12:25 pm


Originally Posted by jordyn (Post 30113229)
Well they just cut service to Frankfurt and added it to Dubrovnik, is the goal that Philly is supposed to focus on leisure markets by cutting business routes and not replacing them anywhere?

As for JFK, killing the ZRH route is not a great example of attempting to focus on business markets.

Seems very hard to work out any sort of strategy here. Clearly they want to focus trans-Atlantic flying through Philly, but route selection remains a mystery and I have no idea how they think they're going to maintain any sort of foothold on the NYC market by hacking away at the route network. Maybe they should just sell the JFK slots to United--I hear that they figured out leaving was a bad idea despite the strong presence at EWR.

I would be in favour of AA selling the slots to UA. I am sick and tired of them cutting service out of JFK. I will never fly to Europe from PHL, ever. Not even if it were free. They need to come up with a new business plan that doesn't involve PHL.

Adelphos Aug 22, 2018 12:26 pm


Originally Posted by jordyn (Post 30116215)
I totally don't understand these. Is AA's target market here people from southern Queens and Long Island who have business in Dallas? Most people from the New York Metro area are going to prefer the plentiful LGA flights. Putting flights to a hub within the LGA perimeter at DFW seems like a huge waste of a JFK slot.

- Need to keep JFK slots active with some kind of flights
- Flagship lounge as a selling point for JFK to DFW to international passengers

jordyn Aug 22, 2018 1:26 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30116268)
- Need to keep JFK slots active with some kind of flights
- Flagship lounge as a selling point for JFK to DFW to international passengers

I'm sure it happens amongst the FlyerTalk crowd, but I have literally never had a conversation with someone that would go to JFK vs. LGA in order to make a connection to DFW for an international flight because the lounge was nicer.


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