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-   -   Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1861355-speculation-will-aa-continue-pull-back-nyc.html)

C17PSGR Jun 24, 2018 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 29901666)


A ghost town there may mean it can more readily fit in another partner carrier or two there.

Except if the partner is also flying at peak times!

ysolde Jun 24, 2018 2:19 pm


Originally Posted by PHL (Post 29833402)
I will agree only that CLT is primarily a hub for AA. This is why the Europe O&D has been hit or miss there.

But ORD, DFW and MIA are AA mega hubs which - like PHL - also have strong O&D like JFK and LAX. In addition - thanks to the US Airways build up of TA routes at PHL in the 10-15 years prior to the merger, it also has more AA European destinations than JFK, and has a flagship lounge "coming soon" (according to https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...hip-lounge.jsp).

So while I get the nostalgic, romantic JFK to anywhere fixation (if you're a NY area resident), there are many PHL area residents who embark on a romantic transatlantic journey from terminal A-West, which opened around the same time as the renovated JFK T8.

But, in the bigger picture - 99% of the passengers on those flights probably picked it for price point above all else and not the psychological debate of which airport will be a better departure point....especially when you have a family of 3-4 people where the savings can mean a few extra days of vacation.

We were just re-routed via PHL (FRA-PHL-JFK). I have to say it was not a pleasant experience. Rude personnel (no one knew where the Admiral's Club was -- and there were two of them), lots of delays (which we were told were common for this flight), and lack of communication. We took a downgrade to Y thinking it would be a short hop from PHL to JFK. Spent hours stuck waiting on a tiny plane that could not take off (after a multi-hour delay because they had no crew). If I am flying out of NYC and have to get to PHL to start my international journey? No, thank you.

golfingboy Jun 24, 2018 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by AAEmpireState (Post 29901307)


Is there any world in which this could be related to the rumored rollout of refurbished 757s on these routes?

No idea, but AA is very hesitant to commit 757s and tout it as a premium offering. Probably part of it is they know the refurbished 757s are inferior to their own A321T product and competitors’ 757 products. They made several short sighted decisions with the 757 refurbishments in effort to minimize investment cost.


Originally Posted by taxicabnumber (Post 29901405)
I read that as 10x weekly (i.e., 2x three days a week and 1x the other four days)

^ I worded this weirdly, should have just said 10x weekly. The second flight will only operate on Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays in the morning.


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 29901590)
A JFK-DEN 5x a week is M-F, just not on the weekends which works for most business travel.

Yes, I think part of the scheduling included the non-business travel crowd. The 5x weekly flight will operate on Su, M, Th, F, Sa.


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 29901666)


A ghost town there may mean it can more readily fit in another partner carrier or two there.

Honestly, I think PANYNJ will at some point force AA to allow other airlines to operate out of terminal 8. If AA does not want to find some random airline stuffed in there, they should be more proactive in convincing their own partners to move into T8 with a goal of turning the terminal into “OneWorld” terminal. That is the best solution for AA IMHO.

Adelphos Jun 24, 2018 4:07 pm

1) Would a move of partners to Terminal 8 take several years to complete?

2) Is AA done ordering th A321T planes? Those are great planes

morrisunc Jun 24, 2018 4:40 pm

I really prefer AA (esp the flagship lounge) when flying out of NYC, but not that I'm a full-time NYC resident I'm finding it hard to stay with them. I've had two BOM trips and I took United on the EWR nonstop which sucked. I've booked a trip to Portugal in Delta One because I'm not going to fly through PHL when I can go nonstop. I've moved all of my RDU-LGA flights to Delta because I'm not sitting on a crappy e-140 after 3 cancellations in 2 months. I've kept my JFK-LHR monthly flights on AA because it's the best product. I've even booked 3 Allegiant flights to visit my parents in Asheville so I can fly nonstop over the summer. I really value my CK status, but I'm not going to fly through PHL and LHR every time I want to fly to Europe to keep it. I will make GS on United ONLY because I have to fly to BOM ~10 times this year and I'm not flying Air India. If Delta really does open up BOM from JFK I will prob shoot for 360 status and move my LHR flying to Virgin and Delta (which isn't as good as AA), but I really wish AA would give me SOME reason to keep flying them. Hint hint. Keeping my bi-monthly visits to see kids in Raleigh on 2-class RJs would be a huge step in the right direction.

golfingboy Jun 24, 2018 4:58 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 29902057)
1) Would a move of partners to Terminal 8 take several years to complete?

2) Is AA done ordering th A321T planes? Those are great planes

1) Depends - can be done in matter of months for most... BA/IB is a different story although pressure to raze T7 and build a more cohesive terminal is slowly building up. BA recently extended its lease but not very long (maybe 5 or 7 years) so they might not have a choice at some point as JFK tries to move forward with transforming the airport.

2) AA is done with A321 CEO orders, but they have 100 A321 NEO orders with deliveries commencing in 2019. No word has been said yet about their intentions for these birds as far as configuration goes.

Adelphos Jun 24, 2018 5:12 pm


Originally Posted by morrisunc (Post 29902142)
I really prefer AA (esp the flagship lounge) when flying out of NYC, but not that I'm a full-time NYC resident I'm finding it hard to stay with them. I've had two BOM trips and I took United on the EWR nonstop which sucked. I've booked a trip to Portugal in Delta One because I'm not going to fly through PHL when I can go nonstop. I've moved all of my RDU-LGA flights to Delta because I'm not sitting on a crappy e-140 after 3 cancellations in 2 months. I've kept my JFK-LHR monthly flights on AA because it's the best product. I've even booked 3 Allegiant flights to visit my parents in Asheville so I can fly nonstop over the summer. I really value my CK status, but I'm not going to fly through PHL and LHR every time I want to fly to Europe to keep it. I will make GS on United ONLY because I have to fly to BOM ~10 times this year and I'm not flying Air India. If Delta really does open up BOM from JFK I will prob shoot for 360 status and move my LHR flying to Virgin and Delta (which isn't as good as AA), but I really wish AA would give me SOME reason to keep flying them. Hint hint. Keeping my bi-monthly visits to see kids in Raleigh on 2-class RJs would be a huge step in the right direction.

in your case, why not just maintain elite status on all three major carriers (it seems like you have the travel to do it)

jmr50 Jun 24, 2018 9:39 pm


Originally Posted by golfingboy (Post 29901079)
Mostly seasonal adjustment but some domestic transcontinental reductions coming in the fall...

JFK - DEN goes to 5x weekly (from daily)
JFK - SAN goes 1x daily and 3x weekly (from 3x daily)
JFK - LAS goes 2x daily (from 3x daily)
JFK - SEA goes 1x daily (from 3x daily)

T8 has to be a ghost town from the fall to the spring and no knowing how much they will beef up those routes for summer 2019.

Jetblue and Mint have killed any desire for me to fly AA to SAN, LAS, or SEA.

tphuang Jun 25, 2018 6:41 am


Originally Posted by jmr50 (Post 29902861)
Jetblue and Mint have killed any desire for me to fly AA to SAN, LAS, or SEA.

Exactly, if it's not clear yet, Mint is going to kill AA in these markets. The number for AA on JFK-SAN before and after mint is not pretty.


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 29901666)


A ghost town there may mean it can more readily fit in another partner carrier or two there.

The big move would IAG in there sometimes down the road.


Originally Posted by beachfan (Post 29901337)
While it doesn't impact me as I'm LAX based, those are major cuts. Not having JFK - DEN at least daily???
I'd assume that this will end even more corporate contracts.

BTW, how is JFK-SAN 1x daily AND 3x weekly. Is it 3 flights per week, on separate days?


Originally Posted by golfingboy (Post 29901079)
Mostly seasonal adjustment but some domestic transcontinental reductions coming in the fall...

JFK - DEN goes to 5x weekly (from daily)
JFK - SAN goes 1x daily and 3x weekly (from 3x daily)
JFK - LAS goes 2x daily (from 3x daily)
JFK - SEA goes 1x daily (from 3x daily)

T8 has to be a ghost town from the fall to the spring and no knowing how much they will beef up those routes for summer 2019.

To be fair, JFK-DEN didn't exist last year. And JFK-SAN/SEA are normally at once daily in the late fall/winter season. So this is just a resumption of normal activity. They tried to re-allocate those slots from Europe/SJU for domestic market, but simply don't know where to use them.

andersonCooper Jun 25, 2018 7:07 am

Personally don't think Mint will kill AA transcon. As much as I love Jetblue especially in my early days of upstate NY, it is hard to stick with B6 with almost no FFP or international partners. A lot of my coworkers stick with US3, even though they don't travel internationally, just for these reasons (they couldn't care less about ground experience, which adds to AA's advantage).

However, I do agree AA is digging itself into grave in the NYC market.

Adelphos Jun 25, 2018 8:33 am

Another issue with Mint is that they effectively penalize you if you book through a corporate travel platform by giving you half the points. Whereas Delta, AA, UA, etc give you extra points by booking paid business class on transcons. I like Mint a lot, but I can't switch over to Mint entirely for transcons for that reason. For an odd leisure flight, or when I need a specific time (for example Mint has a good 4:30 PM flight from SFO to JFK), I will use Mint.

Lounges on the West Coast are also an issue for JetBlue. At LAX, AA has its flagship lounge. At SEA, there is the excellent Delta Sky Club.

Finsup72 Jun 25, 2018 9:47 am


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 29904256)
Another issue with Mint is that they effectively penalize you if you book through a corporate travel platform by giving you half the points. Whereas Delta, AA, UA, etc give you extra points by booking paid business class on transcons. I like Mint a lot, but I can't switch over to Mint entirely for transcons for that reason

Great point that isn't discussed much here on FT. I agree this is a major factor - I essentially earn a free one-way business class ticket to Europe every 2 roundtrips in paid-J on AA transcons. I'll gladly order from a not-so-happy AA FA, while knowing my mileage account will be in great standing once I land.

JetBlue Mint really screws over the corporate flyer given you only get the bonus points if you book on jetblue.com, which is generally not possible.

Hard to compare 120% bonus on AA (for exec plat) vs. half credit on JetBlue Mint if booked through corporate travel.

morrisunc Jun 25, 2018 9:48 am


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 29904256)
Another issue with Mint is that they effectively penalize you if you book through a corporate travel platform by giving you half the points. Whereas Delta, AA, UA, etc give you extra points by booking paid business class on transcons. I like Mint a lot, but I can't switch over to Mint entirely for transcons for that reason. For an odd leisure flight, or when I need a specific time (for example Mint has a good 4:30 PM flight from SFO to JFK), I will use Mint.

Lounges on the West Coast are also an issue for JetBlue. At LAX, AA has its flagship lounge. At SEA, there is the excellent Delta Sky Club.

It's the exact opposite problem for my company. We use concur and require lowest business class nonstop on all flights which is always jetblue when booking last minute - which most people do. 95% of the people at my company would be forced to choose mint on this route vs having a "doesn't comply with company travel policy" sent to our controller. Luckily I'm not in that 95%.

beachfan Jun 25, 2018 11:53 am

deleted by op

CHOPCHOP767 Jun 25, 2018 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 29904256)
Another issue with Mint is that they effectively penalize you if you book through a corporate travel platform by giving you half the points. Whereas Delta, AA, UA, etc give you extra points by booking paid business class on transcons. I like Mint a lot, but I can't switch over to Mint entirely for transcons for that reason. For an odd leisure flight, or when I need a specific time (for example Mint has a good 4:30 PM flight from SFO to JFK), I will use Mint.

Lounges on the West Coast are also an issue for JetBlue. At LAX, AA has its flagship lounge. At SEA, there is the excellent Delta Sky Club.

I can live with fewer miles and even no lounge (just arrive as close to boarding as possible), but I can't live without IRROPS support. AA/DL/UA FFs who pine for B6 miss this point as well; which I think is by FAR the most important. Even in the worst of cancellations, delays, etc., AA has always been able to accommodate me and get me to my destination by NLT next day (usually morning). Good luck getting that on B6, even from JFK and BOS, much less from EWR/LGA... where it could be days.

OTH, about 90% of my flights these days are less than 1000 miles and probable about 75% are fewer than 500 miles, so luxuries like premium transcon service aren't within my realm of options ;)


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