Heavies / widebody at PHX?

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Old Jan 6, 19, 3:43 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by IADCAflyer View Post
PHX --> LHR is about 9.5 hours and LHR --> PHX is about 10.5 hours. Not enough time for a bird like that to do tags unless they run the PHX --> LHR flight and have the LHR --> PHX flight turning from being an inbound from another US city. (e.g., RDU or JFK).
PHX-LHR arrives at 09.25 and LHR-PHX departs at 09.30 so it canít be turning in LHR. So either itís doing a W with another TATL route and turning in PHX, or doing a tag from PHX, or both.
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Old Jan 10, 19, 4:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post


PHX-LHR arrives at 09.25 and LHR-PHX departs at 09.30 so it canít be turning in LHR. So either itís doing a W with another TATL route and turning in PHX, or doing a tag from PHX, or both.
Lets clarify this more, the LHR-PHX arrives at 1230pm and the PHX-LHR leaves at 3PM so the 772 is only doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights
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Old Jan 10, 19, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by FlightNurse View Post
Lets clarify this more, the LHR-PHX arrives at 1230pm and the PHX-LHR leaves at 3PM so the 772 is only doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights
That would be the assumption for the turn at PHX yes, but it may well be part of a W from another TATL hub, turning twice in LHR with PHX in the middle. Or are you saying you know that's not the case, i.e. there will be a single aircraft serving this single route? What about maintenance?

(Note: it's also not impossible with those timings that it could do an onward westbound leg and turn elsewhere, e.g. HNL, but I don't think that's happening.)
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Old Jan 10, 19, 5:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post
That would be the assumption for the turn at PHX yes, but it may well be part of a W from another TATL hub, turning twice in LHR with PHX in the middle. Or are you saying you know that's not the case, i.e. there will be a single aircraft serving this single route? What about maintenance?

(Note: it's also not impossible with those timings that it could do an onward westbound leg and turn elsewhere, e.g. HNL, but I don't think that's happening.)
How long do you think it takes a turn a 772 after doing a trip from LHR? I would assume at least an hour, currently PHX-HNL is operated by 757 and will go to the new A321neo, we could ONLY dream that it would be a 772.

So I'm saying that the 772 will only be doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights and when it comes to maintenance AA would just fly a plane in from a maintenance base OR PHX maintenance base would handle it (which I doubt will happen.)
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Old Jan 10, 19, 6:09 pm
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Originally Posted by FlightNurse View Post
How long do you think it takes a turn a 772 after doing a trip from LHR? I would assume at least an hour, currently PHX-HNL is operated by 757 and will go to the new A321neo, we could ONLY dream that it would be a 772.

So I'm saying that the 772 will only be doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights and when it comes to maintenance AA would just fly a plane in from a maintenance base OR PHX maintenance base would handle it (which I doubt will happen.)
But wait... as I said above the aircraft *cannot* be turning in London. The departure time is 5 mins after arrival time. So either there are two aircraft devoted to just the PHX-LHR daily run and sitting at LHR for 23h55m, which seems ludicrous, or itís doing a W with another AA TATL route. So which is it?
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Old Jan 10, 19, 8:23 pm
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The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
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Old Jan 10, 19, 10:13 pm
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The PHX-LHR route can not be operated with a dedicated airframe. The plane would be arriving PHX every 2nd/3rd day in need of having its next A/B Check completed. This requires an overnight (or similar length) stay at a maint base.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.

FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.

I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 2:53 am
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Originally Posted by freeagent View Post
The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
Yes that is essentially what I said.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 2:06 pm
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FWIW- There are A333s going between CLT and PHX. Morning out of CLT arrives late morning in PHX (as AA1678) while another A333 leaves PHX to CLT doing the opposite, leaves 9:35 AM, arrives CLT late afternoon (as AA1696). I haven't looked at the whole schedule to determine how long this has been going on or will continue but glad I'm on it in a week or so!
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Old Jan 11, 19, 9:04 pm
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Originally Posted by geo1005 View Post
FWIW- There are A333s going between CLT and PHX. Morning out of CLT arrives late morning in PHX (as AA1678) while another A333 leaves PHX to CLT doing the opposite, leaves 9:35 AM, arrives CLT late afternoon (as AA1696). I haven't looked at the whole schedule to determine how long this has been going on or will continue but glad I'm on it in a week or so!
In the slow season PHX has been getting a A332 on a regular bases, this is not new.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 9:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post


But wait... as I said above the aircraft *cannot* be turning in London. The departure time is 5 mins after arrival time. So either there are two aircraft devoted to just the PHX-LHR daily run and sitting at LHR for 23h55m, which seems ludicrous, or itís doing a W with another AA TATL route. So which is it?
Originally Posted by freeagent View Post
The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
Originally Posted by steve64 View Post
The PHX-LHR route can not be operated with a dedicated airframe. The plane would be arriving PHX every 2nd/3rd day in need of having its next A/B Check completed. This requires an overnight (or similar length) stay at a maint base.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.

FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.

I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
Someone stated that the 772 going to PHX "could" be heading to some place after arrival, which is not feasible. Now, in LHR it is feasible that another and is very likely to have a different plane back to PHX. It's not hard to figure that part out.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 11:12 pm
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Originally Posted by FlightNurse View Post
Someone stated that the 772 going to PHX "could" be heading to some place after arrival, which is not feasible. Now, in LHR it is feasible that another and is very likely to have a different plane back to PHX. It's not hard to figure that part out.
So, we're in agreement then.
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.

Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".

My apologies to Ldnn1 who described typical TATL routings as a "W". In my days at AA Ops, we never used that term, so it went way over my head. In this reply, I realized that my long post above is saying the typical TATL routings are a "W".
To combine your "PHX-LHR-PHX" routing with Ldnn1's "W" and my generic routing gives us .... (ignore the dots below, they were needed to get the slashes and airport codes to align correctly)

USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........LHR........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........PHX........PHX.......

Correcting the verbiage of your routing to "LHR-PHX-LHR" gets all of us in agreement ...
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........PHX........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........LHR........LHR.......
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Last edited by steve64; Jan 11, 19 at 11:23 pm Reason: FT formatting is not "what you see is what you get", so bad attempt at a graphic "W"
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Old Jan 12, 19, 2:19 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by steve64 View Post
So, we're in agreement then.
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.

Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".

...
I should have written it as LHR-PHX-LHR since the 772 will be used on another flight to either MIA or another base, since AA has a maintenance base in PHX, maybe they can do the A/B checks who knows
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Old Jan 12, 19, 2:46 pm
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Almost all AA's 777 flights into LHR fly back from LHR to a different city than they started from (be it MIA, JFK, DFW or LAX) at least as often as they return to the same one.
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Old Jan 12, 19, 2:50 pm
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Originally Posted by steve64 View Post
So, we're in agreement then.
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.

Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".

My apologies to Ldnn1 who described typical TATL routings as a "W". In my days at AA Ops, we never used that term, so it went way over my head. In this reply, I realized that my long post above is saying the typical TATL routings are a "W".
To combine your "PHX-LHR-PHX" routing with Ldnn1's "W" and my generic routing gives us .... (ignore the dots below, they were needed to get the slashes and airport codes to align correctly)

USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........LHR........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........PHX........PHX.......

Correcting the verbiage of your routing to "LHR-PHX-LHR" gets all of us in agreement ...
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........PHX........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........LHR........LHR.......
I had never heard "W" routing either, but it makes sense. I thought they were called "scissor" routings.
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