Int'l SWU Denied for Arriving at the Gate "Too Late"?
May 21, 2017, 8:19 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 182
Let's see. You paid for an economy ticket and you flew in economy. Somehow it is hard for me to feel that you were "cheated." The one way to be sure that you fly business is to buy a business ticket.
May 21, 2017, 8:20 pm
#32
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
Now you know to show up earlier.
May 21, 2017, 8:31 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,035
Not exactly. SWU are hard to earn and are a great benefit that is expected to be able to redeem.
May 21, 2017, 9:03 pm
#34
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
If the GA pages you multiple times and you don't respond -- whether for a standby seat, a domestic upgrade, or a SWU, you can lose your spot. This is how it's been as long as I can remember. I know I sound like a broken record, but am a bit astounded at how unfamiliar frequent flyers seem to be with... you know, flying.
I've never once had an issue because I wasn't at the gate when upgraded cleared. The rule you're stating is not a customer facing policy, and it seems very unlikely to me that it's an internal policy. If an agent denied my upgrade because I was waiting in the club for boarding, I would be unhappy.
You seem very sure of yourself on this point, enough so to make a sarcastic comment about those who don't share your understanding. Anything you can point to that backs you up?
May 21, 2017, 9:08 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
As you seem to recognize but not acknowledge, 35 minutes before departure was in fact well after boarding commenced (as is standard practice for many international flights). If you're not at the gate when they page you for your upgrade (which normally happens just before or during boarding), it can be forfeited. Been like this for years.
Since you're aware CDG is such a mess, might I suggest getting to the airport earlier next time?
Since you're aware CDG is such a mess, might I suggest getting to the airport earlier next time?
Arriving at the gate earlier than the 30-minute cut-off and when my group was boarding somehow violated AA policies?
Normally I err on the side of the GA, but in this case you definitely got screwed
Anyone doing an audit of your flight's PALL list will be able to see something fishy went down.
The employees who got the upgrades (and they did get them) absolutely should have been sent to economy instead of you imo.
Anyone doing an audit of your flight's PALL list will be able to see something fishy went down.
The employees who got the upgrades (and they did get them) absolutely should have been sent to economy instead of you imo.
If they're processing SWUs, they page you several times, and you don't show, they may give your upgrade to the next person on the list to facilitate an on-time departure.
Again, this is the way it's been for years. Surprised more people haven't encountered this. I've certainly been the beneficiary of it a few times
Again, this is the way it's been for years. Surprised more people haven't encountered this. I've certainly been the beneficiary of it a few times
You should have been present at the gate when they started processing the upgrade and standby lists. I think the GA was within her powers to deny you the upgrade for not being present when she called you, in order to make sure the aircraft door closed on time.
For widebody departures FROM overseas, I typically arrive at the gate 75-90 minutes in advance of departure time, since they start boarding earlier and earlier each year it seems. Just play on your phone and be present so you can dash up the instant your name is called. Just my two cents.
For widebody departures FROM overseas, I typically arrive at the gate 75-90 minutes in advance of departure time, since they start boarding earlier and earlier each year it seems. Just play on your phone and be present so you can dash up the instant your name is called. Just my two cents.
Absolutely do not understand why you have to be at the gate; I have cleared coutnless upgrades both comp and SWU and NEVER had to be at the gate to claim them. I always only show up right before boarding and collect my ticket. I'd be really upset at this.
100% agree with OP and don't know how you can lay blame on him for this situation
100% agree with OP and don't know how you can lay blame on him for this situation
I wasn't. No time.
Agreed. The requiremrnt that at you need to be present at the gate the moment your upgrade clears or you lose it is completely fabricated. How about mobile boarding passes that get automatically updated with your new seat? Why on earth would you think you had to go to the gate to claim it. Ludicrous.
I did check at the gate. While boarding for my group was underway.
Instead of blaming me (what did I do wrong again?), how about AA posting a time limit so we are not guessing? 35-minutes is not enough? How about 40? 45? 50? Perhaps I should show up at the gate 3-hours before departure just in case?
The point is that the upgrade didn't clear -- the GA paged the OP multiple times to see if he was in the gate area; if he'd responded, the upgrade would have then been cleared.
If the GA pages you multiple times and you don't respond -- whether for a standby seat, a domestic upgrade, or a SWU, you can lose your spot. This is how it's been as long as I can remember. I know I sound like a broken record, but am a bit astounded at how unfamiliar frequent flyers seem to be with... you know, flying.
If the GA pages you multiple times and you don't respond -- whether for a standby seat, a domestic upgrade, or a SWU, you can lose your spot. This is how it's been as long as I can remember. I know I sound like a broken record, but am a bit astounded at how unfamiliar frequent flyers seem to be with... you know, flying.
I certainly thought 2:05 before departure was more than timely, but now that all "Premiers" are equal, which means none are premier, apparently not.
I would like to ask a couple of questions to clarify the situation in case other forum members are in a similar situation in the future.
Is there a difference between a SWU vs miles+copay upgrade? It seems OP was on the upgrade list with a SWU, so the GA could have upgraded him automatically and had the BP waiting for him when he arrived at the gate. However if OP was using miles+copay, does the GA need to swipe a credit card for the copay porition?
Is there a difference between a SWU vs miles+copay upgrade? It seems OP was on the upgrade list with a SWU, so the GA could have upgraded him automatically and had the BP waiting for him when he arrived at the gate. However if OP was using miles+copay, does the GA need to swipe a credit card for the copay porition?
Also if OP was at the AC at CDG, could he have been in touch with the AAngels and inquired about the upgrade? Can the AAngels upgrade the passenger and process the SWU and/or collect the copay if using miles+copay? At what T-departure time, does the AC staff no longer have access to the upgrade list? And does this vary between US hubs and airports outside the US (e.g. CDG)?
Typically they say international flights start boarding 45 minutes prior to departure time. So I usually try to leave the AC or another lounge with enough time to get to the gate by that time. Another member here stated he/she arrives at the gate 75-90 minutes before the departure time. Is this recommended at an airport outside the US and/or if you are waiting for an upgrade and do not want to miss being called? If you are at the AC, doesn't the AC scan your BP and know that you are waiting at the AC and not at the gate?
I am sorry to hear the OP went through a very frustrating experience. However I wonder if the rest of us can learn from this instance and be better prepared if we also are in a similar situation in the future.
First, per AA:
Boarding times:
"50 minutes prior to departure From/To the United States and:
Europe
Middle East
Asia
South American destinations: Asuncion, PY; Brasilia, BR; Belo Horizonte, BR; Curitiba, Br; Buenos Aires, AR; Rio de Janeiro, BR; Sao Paulo, BR; Lima, PE; Montevideo, UY; Porto Alegre, BR; Recife, BR; Salvador, BR; Santiago, CL; Sao Paulo Viracop, BR"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ar-2017-a.html
We've had many posts regarding:
Boarding times - for many international flights, they begin boarding 45 (or earlier - see above) minutes prior to scheduled departure
D-0 - wherein many gate agents begin boarding early
Losing upgrades because one was not in the gate area before they began boarding, which is when they process upgrades
Whether it's AA policy or not seems immaterial, because the evidence supports gate agents are empowered to do pretty much anything they want as long as the jetway is closed and the aircraft is ready for pushback on time.
These posts have been full of angst - why should Club members be denied Club access merely because the gate agents might choose to process upgrades by voice calls, leaving those not present out of luck and upgradeless? Because D-0 is their priority. Apparently AA will penalize them for a late departure if it's due to gate checking bags because there were too many passengers with bin bags, or other reasons presumably under their control, and AA appears not to penalize them for early boarding calls and using upgrade in order but by voice call.
Boarding times:
"50 minutes prior to departure From/To the United States and:
Europe
Middle East
Asia
South American destinations: Asuncion, PY; Brasilia, BR; Belo Horizonte, BR; Curitiba, Br; Buenos Aires, AR; Rio de Janeiro, BR; Sao Paulo, BR; Lima, PE; Montevideo, UY; Porto Alegre, BR; Recife, BR; Salvador, BR; Santiago, CL; Sao Paulo Viracop, BR"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ar-2017-a.html
We've had many posts regarding:
Boarding times - for many international flights, they begin boarding 45 (or earlier - see above) minutes prior to scheduled departure
D-0 - wherein many gate agents begin boarding early
Losing upgrades because one was not in the gate area before they began boarding, which is when they process upgrades
Whether it's AA policy or not seems immaterial, because the evidence supports gate agents are empowered to do pretty much anything they want as long as the jetway is closed and the aircraft is ready for pushback on time.
These posts have been full of angst - why should Club members be denied Club access merely because the gate agents might choose to process upgrades by voice calls, leaving those not present out of luck and upgradeless? Because D-0 is their priority. Apparently AA will penalize them for a late departure if it's due to gate checking bags because there were too many passengers with bin bags, or other reasons presumably under their control, and AA appears not to penalize them for early boarding calls and using upgrade in order but by voice call.
<Redacted> is this really how you think an ExPlat should be treated? Really?
Last edited by Always Flyin; May 22, 2017 at 6:37 am Reason: Characterization not allowed in this forum
May 21, 2017, 9:11 pm
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Very helpful.
Thanks for the input. How much earlier should I show up since you know everything on how to deal with this? I don't do well at the guessing game.
Last edited by Always Flyin; May 22, 2017 at 6:38 am
May 21, 2017, 9:15 pm
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
The OP was just minutes away from being off-loaded and left behind {if the flight was overbooked or there were standby passengers):
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...ooter?#checkin
Looks like a good learning opportunity. Want an upgrade? Get to the gate early. You don't ever want to miss your name being paged by a gate agent.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...ooter?#checkin
Looks like a good learning opportunity. Want an upgrade? Get to the gate early. You don't ever want to miss your name being paged by a gate agent.
What you cite is check-in time, not gate time. Gates close 10-minutes before departure. I was there 35-minutes before departure.
I arrived at check-in 2:05 before departure.
Last edited by JDiver; May 21, 2017 at 10:36 pm Reason: Redacted unfriendly bits
May 21, 2017, 9:24 pm
#38
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
Have not flown out of CDG but is it a mobile BP station? If so, why couldn't GA have seen that yes, OP was checked in ontime for the flight, so she could clear his upgrade (OP could've received the notification on the app) and trust that this pax (who was presumably very high on the upgrade list) would be very interested in getting his upgrade. Obviously if OP doesn't show then she can give the upgrade to someone else. Not sure why the GA just didn't do this? I guess if CDG isn't a mobile BP station then my post is moot.
May 21, 2017, 9:27 pm
#39
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: W29
Programs: It's Complicated...
Posts: 6,823
If things happened as the OP stated they got screwed in my mind. I know that the gate agent can give away your upgrade if you arent there to grab it in a timely fashion but dont think what they described qualifies. I do not however like the comment about assuming it is a NRSA situation unless they have proof.
May 21, 2017, 9:31 pm
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
May 21, 2017, 9:44 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 361
You conveniently didn't quote the part that said you must be at the gate ready to board at 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda.
You arrived at D-35 which put you 5 minutes from being possibly offloaded and your bag(s) pulled.
If your attitude towards the commenters in this thread are the same attitude you gave the GA, I'm not the least bit surprised he/she didn't jump through any hoops to accommodate you and stuck to the rules.
You are due no compensation, and a complaint will yield no results. I can guarantee you that.
Also, you have no proof of wrongdoing by the gate agent so cool it with the unnecessary speculation.
Last edited by TheSkyGuy; May 21, 2017 at 9:52 pm
May 21, 2017, 9:49 pm
#42
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
This entire thread is hilarious. How about you just fly Delta instead, where they upgrade you and hold your boarding pass at the gate for you to pick it up. Or if you try to board, the machine will spit out your new seat number instead.
But I guess the world's greatest flyers can't seem to get some actual customer service
But I guess the world's greatest flyers can't seem to get some actual customer service
May 21, 2017, 10:04 pm
#44
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 152
An important fact not mentioned so far: CDG upgrades require the passenger to pay for a "luxury tax" before the SWU can be processed and the ticket re-issued. It took quite a long time for that to happen- nearly 30 minutes or so before my SWU was processed at check-in and I had to go to at least 3 different counters. Just saying that it is not an easy or automatic process at CDG.
May 21, 2017, 10:15 pm
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
For someone who reads contracts, you failed to read the entire statement or the website link provided.
You conveniently didn't quote the part that said you must be at the gate ready to board at 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda.
You conveniently didn't quote the part that said you must be at the gate ready to board at 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda.
Arrival at Gate
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda
Arrival at Gate
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
30 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -outside- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands, i.e., Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Central/South America, Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda