Held Reservation Canceled

Old Dec 29, 16, 11:41 am
  #16  
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This issue has nothing to do with the DOT rules or AA's hold or extended hold offerings. It is strictly a factual dispute between AA & OP. AA states that OP cancelled his hold prior to the expiration and OP states that he did not.

AA's Web Services looks at the account logged in at the time the cancellation was done and the IP address used. I am going to presume that the account was OP's and the IP address match's the address used to make the held reservation in the first place which is why AA is adamant here.

Rather than fussing here about the rules, because those are not in dispute either by AA or OP, I would call Web Services back and obtain the time the cancellation was supposedly made and ask for the IP address which AA is showing for the time the held reservation was made and then cancelled. AA may not provide the latter, but it might, so asking can't hurt.

At least with that information, OP can consder whether there is any other person who legitimately has his login credentials (a violation of AA's T&C) or whether this is a malicious hacker (different IP address).

Presuming that OP can eliminate anybody else legitimate, I would rebook this as soon as possible so as not to lose out on whatever savings there may still be and then send in a written request (this is not something which will be resolved by phone) asking that AA review this and making the express written statement that OP did not cancel the held reservation. The written request should offer to place this statement in an affidavit.
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Old Dec 29, 16, 12:06 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post

At least with that information, OP can consder whether there is any other person who legitimately has his login credentials (a violation of AA's T&C) or whether this is a malicious hacker (different IP address).
Are login credentials even needed? Can't you pull up (and cancel) a held reservation merely with first and last name and record locator?
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Old Dec 29, 16, 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Where does AA state that it will guarantee the fare om a free hold beyond 24 hours ?
That's an easy one. In the e-mail they send you that has a specific time listed.
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Old Dec 29, 16, 2:23 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by jordyn View Post
That's an easy one. In the e-mail they send you that has a specific time listed.
A, don't know what time zone it's referring to. B, they can simply say it was in error and point to the terms at time you held the reservation. Normally they even disclaim that anything wrong in an email isn't binding.
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Old Dec 29, 16, 2:55 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
A, don't know what time zone it's referring to.
Yes you do. It's included on the confirmation. Has no one in this discussion actually held a reservation before?

B, they can simply say it was in error and point to the terms at time you held the reservation. Normally they even disclaim that anything wrong in an email isn't binding.
I would love to see them try this argument to the DOT.

P.S. There's no such disclaimer.
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Old Dec 29, 16, 3:02 pm
  #21  
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It only has to guarantee the fare for 24 hours - if the airline provided the 24 hours and then the fare expired and is no longer available for puchase, I cannot see DOT doing anything

Also, when holding a reservation, the AA hold policy at https://www.aa.com/i18n/plan-travel/...eservation.jsp states

Originally Posted by AA
24 hour hold

When available on select American marketed and operated flights, you can hold your reservation up to 24 hours for free if you book seven or more days prior to departure.

Here’s how:
■Choose your flights and select “hold” on the “Review and Pay” page
■Refer to your confirmation email or visit “My Trips” to pay for your trip
■Your reservation will automatically cancel after 24 hours if you don't complete the purchase
Can have inventory held with airlines for weeks - it doesn't guarantee that the fare will not change

Last edited by Dave Noble; Dec 29, 16 at 3:08 pm
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Old Dec 30, 16, 4:50 am
  #22  
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I had a similar problem once and it turned out to be a time zone issue. I had booked SYD-LAX and the e-mail said it would be held until 11:59 PM, Eastern Standard Time. Turns out Australia also has a time zone called Eastern Standard Time.

Was the origin of this itinerary out of the US? If so, that is the most likely explanation.
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Old Dec 30, 16, 6:25 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Can have inventory held with airlines for weeks - it doesn't guarantee that the fare will not change
So your argument is that when AA says "held" most of the time it means one thing, but in the e-mail confirmation they send you it means something else entirely?

Once again, I'd love to see them try this argument to the DOT. They don't make any differentiation between holding the fare and holding the inventory in any of their disclosures. This is just an interpretation that you've made up without any basis, which you can tell because it's not what AA actually does (i.e., when AA tells you that they've held your reservation until midnight the next day, they actually hold the fare until that time.)
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Old Dec 30, 16, 7:41 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by jordyn View Post
Yes you do. It's included on the confirmation. Has no one in this discussion actually held a reservation before?



I would love to see them try this argument to the DOT.

P.S. There's no such disclaimer.
DOT is letting airlines get away with pricing "errors". Due you really think an error in an email would be held to? AFAIK no such regulation exists that requires them to honor a mistake in a sent email.
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Old Dec 30, 16, 7:50 am
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The argument is getting sillier and sillier. There is no dispute here about DOT rules, "mistake fares" or whatever. Why not stick to the facts:

1. AA says OP canceled the hold.
2. OP says that he did not.

This is a he says, she says.

Until OP reports back on a follow up with Web Services as per #16, nothing to be done.
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Old Dec 30, 16, 10:12 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by jordyn View Post
So your argument is that when AA says "held" most of the time it means one thing, but in the e-mail confirmation they send you it means something else entirely?

Once again, I'd love to see them try this argument to the DOT. They don't make any differentiation between holding the fare and holding the inventory in any of their disclosures. This is just an interpretation that you've made up without any basis, which you can tell because it's not what AA actually does (i.e., when AA tells you that they've held your reservation until midnight the next day, they actually hold the fare until that time.)
It is not an interpretation, it is how it has worked for years

Holding inventoiry is simply that, holding inventory. For bookings where DOT has control, it introduced a rule requiring that fares be guaranted for 24 hours or that refunds be permitted free of charge withing 24 hours

In the past I have held bookings for weeks prior to ticketing, but this has had no guarantee that the fare will not change


Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
The argument is getting sillier and sillier. There is no dispute here about DOT rules, "mistake fares" or whatever. Why not stick to the facts:

1. AA says OP canceled the hold.
2. OP says that he did not.

This is a he says, she says.

Until OP reports back on a follow up with Web Services as per #16, nothing to be done.
it is irrelevent who cancelled the booking if the fare was not longer eligible to be booked; the OP was informed that the fare is no longer valid
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Old Dec 30, 16, 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by cbn42 View Post
I had a similar problem once and it turned out to be a time zone issue. I had booked SYD-LAX and the e-mail said it would be held until 11:59 PM, Eastern Standard Time. Turns out Australia also has a time zone called Eastern Standard Time.

Was the origin of this itinerary out of the US? If so, that is the most likely explanation.
If the outbound flight is in a different time zone then the 23:59 cutoff time is calculated from that time zone. Two of my recent holds I had to be careful about this as I had to manually calculate what time midnight there would mean for my zone. I think that domestic USA flight holds have a 23:59 deadline EST. Sometimes you have more than 24 hours since in domestic holds they calculate ending the hold 23:59 of the day after the hold is made so it theoretically can be a 47 hour hold if you book at 01:00 EST. That extra time seems to be only for domestic whereas flights originating outside USA seem to be held to a strict 24 hours from moment of hold policy.

Last edited by oaken; Dec 30, 16 at 10:53 am
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Old Dec 30, 16, 11:00 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
What was the dates/route and can have a look if there was a fare that expired yesterday

if it was, then not surprised that once the 24 hours was up, that the reservation cancelled , since the fare would no longer be valid
So even if you book at say 7am on Tuesday and the Hold from AA is valid until 11.59pm EST on Wednesday you can find AA will cancel it at 7.01am on Wednesday?

I use the free Hold feature on almost all my AA bookings in the past 2yrs or so (maybe 50 trips) and I've never had a problem with fares being cancelled in the Hold timeframe. I'll often go back in and confirm a few minutes before the 11.59pm expiration, including an itinerary I booked last night.

Also, you still have 24hrs to cancel the trip for a full refund even on an itinerary where you've held it (It's in the small print of the confirmation email) unless it's within 7 days of travel.

I know you used to be able to cancel held itineraries on AA.com but I think that functionality has gone away, wasn't on one of my bookings earlier this week.
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Old Dec 30, 16, 11:12 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
So even if you book at say 7am on Tuesday and the Hold from AA is valid until 11.59pm EST on Wednesday you can find AA will cancel it at 7.01am on Wednesday?

I use the free Hold feature on almost all my AA bookings in the past 2yrs or so (maybe 50 trips) and I've never had a problem with fares being cancelled in the Hold timeframe. I'll often go back in and confirm a few minutes before the 11.59pm expiration, including an itinerary I booked last night.
It is not often that fares happen to expire on day of placing a hold. How often have you been making bookings where the fare itself is no longer is valid to purchase on the day following the placement of the hold?

The OP was told that " nothing can be done now that the fare is no longer offered" - if it was just a case that the reservation was lost , if there was availability in booking class, would be easy to rebook and even without that would expect a reasonable possibility that the airline would be able to overbook into that class and get it ticketed and that a concern of who cancelled the reservation would not be too major a thing

I may have misunderstood the comment , which is why did ask the route to see whether it was a fare that was valid for purchase on day 1 but not valid on day 2

If it is just that someone/thing cancelled the reservation and there just is no availability to rebook in that class and the airline will not force the booking back in , then would indeed be wanting to know who cancelled
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Old Dec 30, 16, 11:35 am
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
It is not often that fares happen to expire on day of placing a hold. How often have you been making bookings where the fare itself is no longer is valid to purchase on the day following the placement of the hold?
Fairly often, including three times in the last few weeks because I've snaffled the last seats in the booking class. I don't think that's what you were looking for though!
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