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AA "Corporate Security" Cancelled F Award Ticket 3 Hours Prior to Flight (to merge)

AA "Corporate Security" Cancelled F Award Ticket 3 Hours Prior to Flight (to merge)

Old Oct 19, 16, 2:09 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
No, because they (Rate Desk, iirc) will check tickets for various rules conformation - and without a note in the PNR stating why you were originally allowed to violate the stopover rule it was likely this would get picked up and changed; the ticket reissue probably put the ticket into limbo. AFAIK the only way the 23:59 international connection rule can be loosened is if there is no flight available within 24 hours, in some cases. The all partner award rules thread I'm sure details it better than I do.
I don't think any of this really matters - the fact is that the flight was ticketed many months in advance of departure, and OP relied on AA CS telling him repeatedly that the ticket was okay. Then, 3 hours before departure, AA unilaterally cancels (well, refuses to reissue) the ticket due to a "rule violation", despite repeatedly telling him the tickets are okay.

OP, I think you're doing the right thing. First, exhaust all non-formal methods of resolution with AA. Unfortunately, with AA, this is going to be painful, but I hope their canned responses will just strengthen your resolve. Next, file a DOT complaint.

Not sure how the complaint will proceed, but IMO you would complain violations of

14 CFR 399.83 Unfair or deceptive practice of air carrier, foreign air carrier, or ticket agent in orally confirming to prospective passenger reserved space on scheduled flights.

When the agent agent confirmed to you that you were fine and your ticket would be reissued after the minor schedule change

14 CFR 399.80(k)- Unfair and deceptive practices of ticket agents.

When the original issuing agent issued you a ticket, but that ticket was not valid for air travel

14 CFR 399.88(a)- Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

When AA issued you a ticket, but demanded more miles for the same itinerary, after you paid all miles, taxes and fees, within the meaning of the regulation. That one is a little dicey, but even with the new ruling, AA must
(1) demonstrates that the fare was a
mistaken fare
(2) reimburses all consumers who purchased a mistaken fare ticket for any
reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, in addition to refunding the purchase price of the ticket.
Seems they failed to do (2) so far, so a complaint should at least get them to do (2) if they somehow manage to prove the original ticket was a mistake.

Next, if the DOT complaint doesn't resolve to your satisfaction, I would pursue small claims, which IMO you'd have a pretty reasonable case, depending on how consumer-friendly the laws of your state are.

Finally: word of advice - there will be a few here on FT who will defend AA's actions; just remember they are only an opinion (of course my post is only an opinion too), but of course you will get good (and bad) advice here. Good luck, sorry it will be a long battle, unless AA fixes its customer service, and hopefully you get some compensation for your trouble. Keep us updated!

Last edited by no2chem; Oct 19, 16 at 2:16 pm
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Old Oct 19, 16, 3:42 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by echino View Post
Here is a part of the response I received to my second email:
(AA's response)
Wow, that's pretty tough.

Their noting of:

when your schedule had to be changed due to an illegal stopover in Tokyo according to the fare rules of the ticket
and

Since we were unable to find any previous authorization allowing this stopover
= zero chance of any more/better satisfaction/resolution from AA (you've probably concluded as much.) So, if you choose to pursue them outside of the CR path (which is quite clearly dead-ended with that rather specific response, yeah, you've got a road ahead of ya' that's for sure.

Good luck and sorry it didn't end up any better!
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Old Oct 19, 16, 3:50 pm
  #33  
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OP could, in theory respond with the date, time and agent name from the call where the stopover waiver was purportedly provided and suggest AA fetch the tapes (I don't know how long they keep them though), assuming he has some of that.
At least gives AA one more opportunity to decide whether they should just "settle" before they have to get involved with a DOT complaint or SCC.
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Old Oct 19, 16, 3:56 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
OP could, in theory respond with the date, time and agent name from the call where the stopover waiver was purportedly provided and suggest AA fetch the tapes.
No tapes.
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Old Oct 19, 16, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
No tapes.
Do you mean that AA doesn't record calls or that they are stored digitally and thus not on a tape?
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Old Oct 19, 16, 5:10 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ryan182 View Post
Do you mean that AA doesn't record calls or that they are stored digitally and thus not on a tape?
They are not kept for this purpose-- they are for internal quality control purposes only and are not archived/indexed in any way for cases such as this.
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Old Oct 19, 16, 6:30 pm
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
They are not kept for this purpose-- they are for internal quality control purposes only and are not archived/indexed in any way for cases such as this.
So if someone who handles quality control @ AA listens to a tape from last week and hears an agent screaming and swearing at a customer, there's no way for them to track down the agent?
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Old Oct 19, 16, 6:34 pm
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Originally Posted by XLR26 View Post
So if someone who handles quality control @ AA listens to a tape from last week and hears an agent screaming and swearing at a customer, there's no way for them to track down the agent?
Not remotely similar.

Last edited by JonNYC; Oct 19, 16 at 6:56 pm
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Old Oct 19, 16, 7:45 pm
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Reading this reminds me of a "illegal change on airport" when JL changed the arrival airport from ICN to GMP. The tickets had numerous involuntary changes between booking and travel including canceled flights by QF, JL and AA plus numerous time changes. It were reissued 3 times since that airport change without hiccup but then got hung up on yet another involuntary change.

An agent finally saw what caused the problem - the airport change was deemed illegal but it was due to JL switched the airport AND it was allowed at the time of rebooking. She made a note in the PNR, mentioned the reason and history of the "illegal airport change" and resent the reservation to the rate desk for reissue. Then 12 hours later the tickets were reissued. Thanks to that note I presume, the 1/2 doz or so subsequent changes (all involuntary) did not cause any more hiccup. I was shocked that we had not a single schedule change when we actually flew that itinerary.

The take away is, if there is an exception made for any "illegal itinerary", ask and make sure the agent properly notate the PNR so hopefully to prevent issues down the road.

Still, it is always craps that we the customers have to be super vigilant on our reservations as the airlines could not care less on any of their mistakes that cause interruption to your travel plan. Can't imagine an ordinary customer would have enough knowledge to fight this battle with airlines.
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Old Oct 19, 16, 7:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Reading this reminds me of a "illegal change on airport" when JL changed the arrival airport from ICN to GMP. [...]
Still, it is always craps that we the customers have to be super vigilant on our reservations as the airlines could not care less on any of their mistakes that cause interruption to your travel plan. Can't imagine an ordinary customer would have enough knowledge to fight this battle with airlines.
Agree, if airline departments weren't so compartmentalized, maybe they would be able to be more forward looking and keep customers happy rather than having a stupid rate desk which is a little too trigger happy with canceling "illegal tickets", instead of be one of the most hated industries, up there with cable companies, cell phone companies and banks...

I mean really, how much would it of cost AA to allow a stopover which one of their own agents OKd? I think that there are better things for "corporate security" to do .. which are more beneficial to the company...
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Old Oct 19, 16, 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
Not remotely similar.
So then they can pull recordings of specific agents (if they were made), but the issue being discussed in this thread doesn't qualify for that type of investigation/inquiry?
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Old Oct 19, 16, 8:58 pm
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So is the moral of the story here that if it seems like you're getting a free lunch on an AA routing rule due to a "unique circumstance", you'd better take a darn close second look at it? That's what I'm taking away; could be way off base though...
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Old Oct 19, 16, 9:05 pm
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Originally Posted by arlflyer View Post
So is the moral of the story here that if it seems like you're getting a free lunch on an AA routing rule due to a "unique circumstance", you'd better take a darn close second look at it? That's what I'm taking away; could be way off base though...
That and AAgents (and AA) can't be trusted... Honestly the OP wasn't getting a free lunch, based on the history it seems he had to suffer through several involuntary routing changes...
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Old Oct 19, 16, 9:07 pm
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Originally Posted by XLR26 View Post
So then they can pull recordings of specific agents (if they were made), but the issue being discussed in this thread doesn't qualify for that type of investigation/inquiry?
My take is that AA probably keeps a sampling of tapes for a short period of time to effectively spot-check customer service and help come up with case studies for agent training.

Shame they don't keep them longer, I suppose they think the downside outweighs the upside, particularly when costs are factored in, since they can usually get away with screwing their customers anyway.

I once had the Amex cruise agency go review a tape of a call (can't remember the details) which was then resolved favorably for me. It, of course, has kept me quite loyal to Amex (among lots of other reasons). Which is a lot more than I can say for AA, or any airline for that matter.
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Old Oct 19, 16, 10:55 pm
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Rediculous outcome. I have tickets for 5 in business class PEN-YVR and the fare rules prohibit stopovers. Of course in the almost a year since issue, AA, AS, CX and KA have all had multiple schedule changes. Guess what, we have two 24+ hour stopovers now and I have NEVER touched the tickets. These are simply the result of AA shuffling us and reissuing the tickets on their own. As much as the DOT will not help you with much these days, I think this type of conduct is something you may get a sympathetic ear from them on.
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