Was this just bad service recovery? (Storms at CLT)
May 2, 2016, 12:29 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
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Agreed that some answers here are a bit harsh.
OP, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm personally not fond of CLT; it seems like most employees there are unfriendly and fake (seemingly nice but does not really help). This may go against the grain, but I prefer PHL. Gruffness may be hard to deal with, but at least you know what you're getting into. PHX is my favorite pmUS hub, because almost every time I've connected through there, I've worked with nothing but friendly employees.
OP, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm personally not fond of CLT; it seems like most employees there are unfriendly and fake (seemingly nice but does not really help). This may go against the grain, but I prefer PHL. Gruffness may be hard to deal with, but at least you know what you're getting into. PHX is my favorite pmUS hub, because almost every time I've connected through there, I've worked with nothing but friendly employees.
May 2, 2016, 12:46 pm
#32
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Two points I will add ...
(1) You mentioned that the same storm hit ATL an hour before. That could be a huge difference. You just don't know what the arrivals were like at ATL at that moment. Maybe the storm hit them during a relatively lull period and thus were able to recover, while at CLT the storms were at a peak time? Also even though it was the same weather pattern, we don't know if the intensity was the same (micro-factors such as topography do alter storms). So this is why comparing hubs is a tricky business.
(2) You also mentioned that DL flights to BOS were not delayed and that AA prioritized LAX over BOS. Again, I don't think this is something you can compare. AA might have decided that they need the A321's in LAX for Monday and thus were willing to delay BOS flight. Lots of factors go into aircraft positioning and without all the details operations has it is easy to armchair quarterback their decisions.
Ultimately, I think you do have some legitimate gripes - specifically how they could have done a better job with information regarding the delay, it seems like there were a lot of factors at play here.
(1) You mentioned that the same storm hit ATL an hour before. That could be a huge difference. You just don't know what the arrivals were like at ATL at that moment. Maybe the storm hit them during a relatively lull period and thus were able to recover, while at CLT the storms were at a peak time? Also even though it was the same weather pattern, we don't know if the intensity was the same (micro-factors such as topography do alter storms). So this is why comparing hubs is a tricky business.
(2) You also mentioned that DL flights to BOS were not delayed and that AA prioritized LAX over BOS. Again, I don't think this is something you can compare. AA might have decided that they need the A321's in LAX for Monday and thus were willing to delay BOS flight. Lots of factors go into aircraft positioning and without all the details operations has it is easy to armchair quarterback their decisions.
Ultimately, I think you do have some legitimate gripes - specifically how they could have done a better job with information regarding the delay, it seems like there were a lot of factors at play here.
May 2, 2016, 12:58 pm
#33
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The pilot was a loudmouth and demonstrated poor judgment in throwing around the "we're going to be illegal" nonsense, especially where passengers could hear it.
Fortunately for the customers and the other employees, someone (probably in crew scheduling) straightened him out. Crew Scheduling understands the limits in the contract, perhaps more so than individual pilots.
Duty day limitations exist in the FARs and, perhaps the new contract contains more restrictive duty day limits. The FARs are firm, but the contractual duty day limits (if more restrictive than the FARs) can be waived by the pilots. Perhaps that's what happened here.
Unfortunate that storms have such a knock-on effect with airline schedules, but that's really nothing new.
Fortunately for the customers and the other employees, someone (probably in crew scheduling) straightened him out. Crew Scheduling understands the limits in the contract, perhaps more so than individual pilots.
Duty day limitations exist in the FARs and, perhaps the new contract contains more restrictive duty day limits. The FARs are firm, but the contractual duty day limits (if more restrictive than the FARs) can be waived by the pilots. Perhaps that's what happened here.
Unfortunate that storms have such a knock-on effect with airline schedules, but that's really nothing new.
May 2, 2016, 5:15 pm
#34
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The pilot was a loudmouth and demonstrated poor judgment in throwing around the "we're going to be illegal" nonsense, especially where passengers could hear it.
Fortunately for the customers and the other employees, someone (probably in crew scheduling) straightened him out. Crew Scheduling understands the limits in the contract, perhaps more so than individual pilots.
Duty day limitations exist in the FARs and, perhaps the new contract contains more restrictive duty day limits. The FARs are firm, but the contractual duty day limits (if more restrictive than the FARs) can be waived by the pilots. Perhaps that's what happened here.
Unfortunate that storms have such a knock-on effect with airline schedules, but that's really nothing new.
Fortunately for the customers and the other employees, someone (probably in crew scheduling) straightened him out. Crew Scheduling understands the limits in the contract, perhaps more so than individual pilots.
Duty day limitations exist in the FARs and, perhaps the new contract contains more restrictive duty day limits. The FARs are firm, but the contractual duty day limits (if more restrictive than the FARs) can be waived by the pilots. Perhaps that's what happened here.
Unfortunate that storms have such a knock-on effect with airline schedules, but that's really nothing new.
As for the OP's complaint about "stealing" airplanes, I dare the OP to spend a day in the AA day of departure ops department during a major weather event at one of the hubs. They are juggling planes (which have to be rescheduled with planned maintenance in mind) and crews (which have to be rescheduled with duty limits in mind). So, there are going to be changes and delays. It has happened to me on DL, NW, WN, AA, and others.
May 2, 2016, 6:01 pm
#35
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As for the OP's complaint about "stealing" airplanes, I dare the OP to spend a day in the AA day of departure ops department during a major weather event at one of the hubs. They are juggling planes (which have to be rescheduled with planned maintenance in mind) and crews (which have to be rescheduled with duty limits in mind). So, there are going to be changes and delays. It has happened to me on DL, NW, WN, AA, and others.
May 2, 2016, 8:29 pm
#38
Join Date: Jan 2015
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I can't speak for OP's expirence. Traveling through CLT this morning seems still seemed disjointed. I think that crew availability wass low due to the storms yesterday and some low clouds lead to a slight delay on my trip. All in all, it was okay in the am.
In jax, it was another story. Lots of standbys and now seats....
In jax, it was another story. Lots of standbys and now seats....
May 3, 2016, 4:05 am
#40
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You received some incomplete / incorrect information here.
The aircraft assigned to fly you to BOS was never reassigned. The assignment of the aircraft (N573UW) was made at 11:24am on April 30th.
The plane departed from SFO at 11:44am PDT enroute to CLT. After 5 laps in a holding pattern outside of CLT, the aircraft was diverted to CAE at 7:40pm and landed there at 8:04pm.
For whatever reason, it did not depart until 11:08pm and finally arrived at CLT at 11:35pm.
The gate agent who told you the plane was reassigned most likely incorrectly assumed the plane which arrived at the gate was the plane originally supposed to be the one going to BOS. It was not, it was simply another aircraft that needed a gate while your aircraft was at CAE.
Most likely, the crew flying SFO-CLT was the same crew flying CLT-BOS. With the plane and crew being out of location, it was not possible to assign a new plane and crew to the CLT-BOS flight. (Especially on the last day of the month!)
All of this information is easily accessible online.
FlightStats.com will show the entire history of a flight, including the assignment of aircraft to a flight and any aircraft swaps.
FlightAware.com will show flight routings -- both by flight number and by tail number.
In many cases, you will be able to find things out before a gate agent or AAdmirals club rep will have that information. I've actually given short tutorials on both websites to club agents in the past.
Greg
The aircraft assigned to fly you to BOS was never reassigned. The assignment of the aircraft (N573UW) was made at 11:24am on April 30th.
The plane departed from SFO at 11:44am PDT enroute to CLT. After 5 laps in a holding pattern outside of CLT, the aircraft was diverted to CAE at 7:40pm and landed there at 8:04pm.
For whatever reason, it did not depart until 11:08pm and finally arrived at CLT at 11:35pm.
The gate agent who told you the plane was reassigned most likely incorrectly assumed the plane which arrived at the gate was the plane originally supposed to be the one going to BOS. It was not, it was simply another aircraft that needed a gate while your aircraft was at CAE.
Most likely, the crew flying SFO-CLT was the same crew flying CLT-BOS. With the plane and crew being out of location, it was not possible to assign a new plane and crew to the CLT-BOS flight. (Especially on the last day of the month!)
All of this information is easily accessible online.
FlightStats.com will show the entire history of a flight, including the assignment of aircraft to a flight and any aircraft swaps.
FlightAware.com will show flight routings -- both by flight number and by tail number.
In many cases, you will be able to find things out before a gate agent or AAdmirals club rep will have that information. I've actually given short tutorials on both websites to club agents in the past.
Greg
), but for the rest of the flying population (INCLUDING AA agents
) it is NOT.
May 3, 2016, 11:50 am
#41
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TUS, SEA, OTP, OMR
Posts: 868
Uggh, CLT.
In years of flying, I've only been there a couple of times, and it always goes badly wrong. Recently, while boarding the CDG flight, a super rude GA started yelling at me about having "valet" tags on my bag (where they are because I fly out of TUS which is RJ city), and ripped those off. She also ripped off my Alaska 75k tag and tried to rip off my KLM Platinum tag. When I demanded to have my tags back, she threatened to call the cops. And we were already almost 2 hours late.
I generally agree with this advice. If a whole airport is going south, just bail out as soon as you can. Head for the nearest biggest hub, if possible. Take a standby on whatever you can talk them into. Knowing what you want helps a lot in these situations (ExpertFlyer or just Google Flights kung-foo), but when an airport starts to go bad (especially the slightly smaller east coast hubs like BOS, CVG, and CLT), then I get out on the first thing that looks like it's leaving.
In years of flying, I've only been there a couple of times, and it always goes badly wrong. Recently, while boarding the CDG flight, a super rude GA started yelling at me about having "valet" tags on my bag (where they are because I fly out of TUS which is RJ city), and ripped those off. She also ripped off my Alaska 75k tag and tried to rip off my KLM Platinum tag. When I demanded to have my tags back, she threatened to call the cops. And we were already almost 2 hours late.
I generally agree with this advice. If a whole airport is going south, just bail out as soon as you can. Head for the nearest biggest hub, if possible. Take a standby on whatever you can talk them into. Knowing what you want helps a lot in these situations (ExpertFlyer or just Google Flights kung-foo), but when an airport starts to go bad (especially the slightly smaller east coast hubs like BOS, CVG, and CLT), then I get out on the first thing that looks like it's leaving.
May 3, 2016, 1:45 pm
#42
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Agreed!
As for the OP's complaint about "stealing" airplanes, I dare the OP to spend a day in the AA day of departure ops department during a major weather event at one of the hubs. They are juggling planes (which have to be rescheduled with planned maintenance in mind) and crews (which have to be rescheduled with duty limits in mind). So, there are going to be changes and delays. It has happened to me on DL, NW, WN, AA, and others.
As for the OP's complaint about "stealing" airplanes, I dare the OP to spend a day in the AA day of departure ops department during a major weather event at one of the hubs. They are juggling planes (which have to be rescheduled with planned maintenance in mind) and crews (which have to be rescheduled with duty limits in mind). So, there are going to be changes and delays. It has happened to me on DL, NW, WN, AA, and others.
May 3, 2016, 1:47 pm
#43
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OP here -
Thanks to everyone who's participated in this thread. I understand that some aren't going to see everything the way I did, or experience the same frustrations I did. Though the majority of the posters seem to have similar frustrations with AA Ops, and some with CLT. At the end of the day I did make it home and life goes on. But I appreciate everyone's time and thoughts/feedback on the matter. Helps me to set expectations moving forward.
Thanks to everyone who's participated in this thread. I understand that some aren't going to see everything the way I did, or experience the same frustrations I did. Though the majority of the posters seem to have similar frustrations with AA Ops, and some with CLT. At the end of the day I did make it home and life goes on. But I appreciate everyone's time and thoughts/feedback on the matter. Helps me to set expectations moving forward.
May 3, 2016, 4:34 pm
#44
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Oh yes...I was flying JFK-CLT-RIC last night and the JFK-CLT flight was delayed from 7pm until 8pm, we pushed back early but then trundled over to besides 31L/13R and shut the engines down for a while, didn't get in to CLT until about 11.30pm. My CLT-RIC flight was pretty heavily delayed posting a 1.15am departure (from original 10.40pm)...I was in the AC until it closed at midnight and then sat by the gate on the floor and then in a wheelchair as all the seats were gone. 1.15am came and went with no signs of crew showing up although an FA did show, go onboard then leave about 40mins later. I waited until 2am when I gave up then called AA and rebooked onto the 12.45pm departure getting the last F seat. The first 20 hotels I called were all full and I eventually got a room at the Doubletree by the Panthers Stadium.
There were about 40 on standby for that flight today.
There were about 40 on standby for that flight today.
May 4, 2016, 12:10 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Posts: 604
As for why the LAX plane took your plane, there could be operational reason for this beyond your knowing. Perhaps if that LAX flt was delayed much longer it would have delayed significantly or cxld an early morning departure from LAX to somewhere else causing a much bigger impact than making your BOS flt a little later since it's obviously a lot shorter time CLT to BOS than it is CLT to LAX. Or, perhaps the LAX would have been at risk of timing out if they didn't leave soon since it's a good 5hr flt to LAX. As frustrating as it is, they got your to BOS, albeit late, but safely, and relatively on the same day (tech not since it was after midnight). They usually have a good reason for doing things like that beyond pax's understanding of it bc they aren't working behind the scenes.