swag

Well, Delta is expanding theirs.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...pand/83045254/

And AA has said that they are coming later this year.
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....llow-upgrades/

In general, more options are good. If the cheapest fare now is $300 for my trip, and it comes with full elite benefits, the fact that AA decides to also sell a fare for $250 with no benefits doesn't hurt me, if I can still pay the $300. But - and this is a big but - this could be very bad news for business travelers whose companies buy their tickets, if the company travel policy dictates that the cheaper basic fare must be purchased.

Often1

According to the CEO, 87% of AA's customers fly 1x/year or less. Those passengers not only don't receive elite benefits but aren't even in the market for them. For every person on FT who says that they won't book into a middle seat in the last two rows, thee is someone who is more than willing to sit there to save $50 for their one flight of the year.

Every time I see one of these threads, whether it's about a "basic" thread on a US domestic carrier or HBO for Europeans, I have to question the motives of people who blast consumer choice.

AA conducts market research and presumably sees a market for a standard Y fare at $300. This comes with all standard "elite" benefits. It also sees a market for a basic fare at $250. For that, you get a seat on an aircraft from A-B (details to follow, but at least we know it won't include UG's).

As a consumer, you have to ask yourself whether the elite benefits are worth $50. If you aren't the consumer, but only the passenger, e.g., your employer pays for the ticket (or reimburses), that is a decision for the employer. If you don't like your employer's choices, you have a labor problem, not an AA problem.

DL, for instance, has targeted away from business travelers by making its E fares completely inflexible. They can't be changed at all. If you don't fly exactly as booked, the ticket is cancelled and all value is lost. No credit and there is no fee you can pay to make the change. Most businesses look at that and figure it's not worth it. On the other hand, there are businesses which can schedule far ahead and figure that eating a few el cheapo tickets here and there when an employee gets sick is worth the savings.

None of this says anything about how much AA values the customer's business. It does, however, say a lot about how much the customer values elite benefits.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

Like it or not this is the future of the airlines. Elites over the next few years will see many changes. If you are high dollar spend they will be to your liking.

RogerD408

I think it's a fair statement that AA Elites make up a small portion of the flying population, and an even much smaller portion are on FT. So even if every FT member changed airlines, I doubt AA would notice. It's tough to accept your business doesn't mean anything to a vendor, but that's the way it is. We (FT members) are small peanuts in the whole scheme of things. What FT brings to the table is allowing us to share our experiences and spread the word quickly. So stealthy changes get disseminated faster than they may like. When a better deal is discovered we can choose to make the more or not.

sombrachinesca

I agree with those who say that this should not be a big deal - if I want elite benefits then I can buy the appropriate fare.

However - in order for that to realistically occur AA needs some serious improvements to the website.

They should follow in the footsteps of DL which allows you to select (under the advanced search feature) exactly which fare classes will be displayed.

DL also helpfully allows you to refine the displayed results to select or deselect various connection airports, in-flight amenities, etc...

I almost never fly Delta, but I do find their website to be way ahead of AA.com - if AA is going to copy their programs then the least they can do is to copy their IT/website as well.

Microwave

We don't need two threads for this topic; I'll merge this into the extant discussion.

~Moderator

sbrower

Just so we are clear, I believe this refers to 87% of the passengers, based on individual people. Not 87% of the tickets (or, stated another way, 87% of the seats). That is, 2% of the passengers probably buy 20% of the "seats." (Not arguing with any of your conclusions in your post - just wanted to point out the statistical meaning.)

ElmhurstNick

It definitely is a labor problem, but it is also an accounting and auditing problem. And that's where AA's IT, and to a lesser extent all back-end legacy carrier IT and some travel agencies' IT, is an issue.

I just flew Delta the other day with no status. It was an easy call to pay the $39 to upgrade from E- to F for a 45 minute flight, because I had to check a bag anyway and that would be $25. Add in $5 for the drink I would have bought at the airport, and that left a total of $9 for a bigger seat for an hour. The website was very clear, it was easy for me to demonstrate that the coach fare was $266 one-way and the F fare was $305.

I'm all for driving fares down. I'm amazed that I am frequently paying less for ORD-BOS, ORD-DCA, and ORD-SFO than when I finished graduate school 25 years ago. But I want the ability to specify, purchase, and receive receipts for my bundles in a way which allows my employer to properly reimburse me for the core activities of my job while letting me spend my own money for the comforts that make it more pleasant.

For me the biggest issue with Basic Economy fares is middle seats. It's been at least 22 years since I've sat in one, and I have no intention to start now. Basic Economy on an E-175 or an ERJ-145 for 90 minutes? Sure, why not...

azepine00

A far more likely scenario is those folks will be paying same but we will be paying $50 more for our picky preferences...

I dont believe new fares will be less expensive than cheapest fares now - why would a business introduce smth to decrease their revenue stream?

SiempreBCNJFK

This exactly is what I was going to say. Time and time again US carriers have played customers with the "Animal Farm" effect. Namely, give you less and less for your money, that when they actually give something that seems to be a good deal, it's actually far worse than the way it used to. You saw this with UA a few months ago when they had a huge social media campaign that they'd now start giving snacks on economy flights again. They were PROUD to finally restore their service to what was normal and expected 15 years ago.

I can totally see this scenario playing out with all Y seats staying the same price for basic economy and the current economy will be named economy plus or something and cost more.

ThreeJulietTango

Did Delta raise regular economy fares on markets where they introduced Basic Economy?

Even after adjusting for inflation, air travel today is in many cases cheaper than it's ever been (particularly domestic). and one of the ways airlines are accomplishing that is by eliminating the frills that would otherwise drive up the cost.

15 years ago could you get a transcon flight for less than $200 on a regular basis?

3Cforme

A smart business would do it to be able to compete on price with the likes of Spirit, Allegient, and Frontier, which are growing ASMs much faster than AA (or UA). A smart business would also display the value available from higher fares.

ashill

Of course, it's very difficult to tell since airfares change for so many reasons. A better question is did DL used to match Spirit etc fares with regular economy fares (as AA does on some routes; I know PHL-ATL from experience) and now match them with basic economy fares? Or did DL not match Spirit at all in the past and now matches them with Basic Economy?

If the former, AA customers have some reason to be concerned; if the latter, win-win. My guess is the answer will vary by market.

billgrates3

WAAY cheaper, for example, I flew Idlewild-KEF-LUX on Icelandic's turboprop (14 hrs each way) for $389 in 1966 dollars. That's about $2900 in 2013 dollars!!!

On that same trip I flew UA from LAX to Idlewild on student standby for $75 ONE-WAY, or adjusted to 2013, ~$540.

nkedel

15 years ago, we were already into the start of the dot-com bust recession, and yes, there were a lot of $200-$250 sale fares starting to crop up (ignoring inflation.) 16 years ago when people still were rah-rah on the economy, not so much.

Having flown a TON of transcons between 1995-2000 (girlfriend-now-wife living out here, my living back East), $300-$350 was pretty typical for an advance-purchase BOS-SFO or NYC-SFO. That's like $450 to a bit over $500 as adjusted for inflation.