Apr 3, 2016, 11:47 am
Last edit by: JDiver
MODERATOR NOTE
NOTE: This thread is exclusively for q&a, discussion about security procedures encountered by AA passengers. General discussion about airport security properly belongs in the Travel Safety / Security fora, particularly the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate subforum. Link.
The 2017 enhanced security interviewing general discussion is New passenger screening "interviews" to US, starting Oct 26/2017
As of Thursday, 26 Oct 2017 the procedures described below have been expanded to all airlines and departure points to the USA, required to avoid the alternative ban on personal electronic devices larger than a mobile phone that was originally imposed. By October 26 2017 these have been implemented network-wide by AA and most airlines. A few airlines were granted extensions until mid-January 2018.
Be sure to allow yourself plenty of time to complete these additional procedures, which may include all procedures detailed below, including interviews, deeper scrutiny of documents, carryon baggage and personal items, including explosives detection swabbing of electronic devices.
Link to Reuters article, 29 June 2017
Link to Time article, 25 Oct 2017
Link to USA Today article, 25 Oct 2017
Security procedures for those departing internationally to the USA, particularly since 11 Sep 2001, have been more extensive. The U. S. Department of Homeland Security requires ALL airlines perform more extensive passenger screening of USA-bound passengers. (AA began in Europe with ICTS International a Dutch firm founded by former Israeli Shin Bet (internal security) and El Al personnel. In Europe, when you have been cleared (at or near the gate generally) they will affix a sticker (base and letter colors may vary by day, etc.) marked "ICTS" to your passport cover.)
Passenger questioning generally includes a first layer of questions, usually asked by check-in staff, that include such items as "Who packed your baggage?", "Has your baggage been in your possession since it was packed?", "What electronic devices do you have?", "Have you had any repaired while on your trip?"
A second layer of questions may include requests for more detailed information about you and your travels, such as "What do you do for a living?", "What company do you work for?", "What's the name of your CEO?", "How many times a year do you travel through XYZ?", "Where did you stay?", "What's your favorite restaurant in ....?", "Tell me about your best ever holiday?", "describe your neighborhood" and include questions about your home address, neighborhood, children, etc. To some people these questions might appear intrusive; others may feel the body language, tone and language used are inappropriate in some way.
These second layer questions were previously asked by contract security personnel, but now might be asked by airline check-in staff as well. Note the behavior of the passenger is observed and may be emphasized over answer content. Failure to reply with requested information or refusal may result in more extensive procedures.
Be aware: it has been verified the agents have the ability to issue your boarding pass with "SSSS", meaning you will get "heavy" screening. Several people have described "giving lip" or declining to answer agent second layer questions for various reasons and getting SSSS.
Though USA-bound passengers are generally screened at or prior to entering the gate area for departure, additional screening may include more extensive questioning by AA or contracted security personnel and / or more screening of possessions. This may be entering or at the gate area, or even at temporary stations set up at the gate or on the boarding bridge; passengers may be selected randomly, or from lists that may include other countries one has visited.
Other procedures may be used at other airports for departing passengers boarding to the USA. Procedures may intensify or lessen as influenced by current security status or information in possession of local, airport, airline or other security and intelligence entities.
More extensive security suggest giving yourself more time to process these enhanced procedures.
Please refrain from altering this moderator note.
NOTE: This thread is exclusively for q&a, discussion about security procedures encountered by AA passengers. General discussion about airport security properly belongs in the Travel Safety / Security fora, particularly the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate subforum. Link.
The 2017 enhanced security interviewing general discussion is New passenger screening "interviews" to US, starting Oct 26/2017
As of Thursday, 26 Oct 2017 the procedures described below have been expanded to all airlines and departure points to the USA, required to avoid the alternative ban on personal electronic devices larger than a mobile phone that was originally imposed. By October 26 2017 these have been implemented network-wide by AA and most airlines. A few airlines were granted extensions until mid-January 2018.
Be sure to allow yourself plenty of time to complete these additional procedures, which may include all procedures detailed below, including interviews, deeper scrutiny of documents, carryon baggage and personal items, including explosives detection swabbing of electronic devices.
Link to Reuters article, 29 June 2017
Link to Time article, 25 Oct 2017
Link to USA Today article, 25 Oct 2017
Security procedures for those departing internationally to the USA, particularly since 11 Sep 2001, have been more extensive. The U. S. Department of Homeland Security requires ALL airlines perform more extensive passenger screening of USA-bound passengers. (AA began in Europe with ICTS International a Dutch firm founded by former Israeli Shin Bet (internal security) and El Al personnel. In Europe, when you have been cleared (at or near the gate generally) they will affix a sticker (base and letter colors may vary by day, etc.) marked "ICTS" to your passport cover.)
Passenger questioning generally includes a first layer of questions, usually asked by check-in staff, that include such items as "Who packed your baggage?", "Has your baggage been in your possession since it was packed?", "What electronic devices do you have?", "Have you had any repaired while on your trip?"
A second layer of questions may include requests for more detailed information about you and your travels, such as "What do you do for a living?", "What company do you work for?", "What's the name of your CEO?", "How many times a year do you travel through XYZ?", "Where did you stay?", "What's your favorite restaurant in ....?", "Tell me about your best ever holiday?", "describe your neighborhood" and include questions about your home address, neighborhood, children, etc. To some people these questions might appear intrusive; others may feel the body language, tone and language used are inappropriate in some way.
These second layer questions were previously asked by contract security personnel, but now might be asked by airline check-in staff as well. Note the behavior of the passenger is observed and may be emphasized over answer content. Failure to reply with requested information or refusal may result in more extensive procedures.
Be aware: it has been verified the agents have the ability to issue your boarding pass with "SSSS", meaning you will get "heavy" screening. Several people have described "giving lip" or declining to answer agent second layer questions for various reasons and getting SSSS.
Though USA-bound passengers are generally screened at or prior to entering the gate area for departure, additional screening may include more extensive questioning by AA or contracted security personnel and / or more screening of possessions. This may be entering or at the gate area, or even at temporary stations set up at the gate or on the boarding bridge; passengers may be selected randomly, or from lists that may include other countries one has visited.
Other procedures may be used at other airports for departing passengers boarding to the USA. Procedures may intensify or lessen as influenced by current security status or information in possession of local, airport, airline or other security and intelligence entities.
More extensive security suggest giving yourself more time to process these enhanced procedures.
Please refrain from altering this moderator note.
Airports initially used by AA included because of different, more thorough etc. security included:
AMS - Amsterdam, The Netherlands: USA-bound AA passengers are reported to undergo airline security contractor questioning at check-in or when transiting.
BOG - Bogotá, Colombia: USA-bound AA passengers are reported to undergo more intense, even aggressive, questioning even from than other Colombian airports served by AA in 2016.
BRU - Brussels, Belgium: a terror bombing at departures 22 Mar 2016 has impacted BRU and security procedures have changed and intensified as it slowly reopens.
DUB - Dublin, Ireland: AA passengers departing to the USA pass through airport security to the airside departures area with shops and lounges - followed by US Customs and Border Protection (customs and immigration) formalities and TSA security, as this is one of several pre-clearance airports (the aircraft arrives in the USA as a domestic flight). Please discuss DUB in the dedicated thread - link.
LHR - Some members report more extensive and intrusive questioning of AA USA-bound passengers. It doesn't seem different than questioning that has been used on departing passengers elsewhere (e.g. AMS, BRU, CDG, FCO, FRA, MAD in the wiki author's experience), but the intensity could vary - influenced by current security status or information in possession of local, airport, airline or other security and intelligence entities.
MEX - México City, Mexico: Hand baggage inspection tables are generally set up at the jetbridge for further examination of documents and carry-on items. Though passengers are said to be randomly selected, the first passengers boarding are often selected.
AMS - Amsterdam, The Netherlands: USA-bound AA passengers are reported to undergo airline security contractor questioning at check-in or when transiting.
BOG - Bogotá, Colombia: USA-bound AA passengers are reported to undergo more intense, even aggressive, questioning even from than other Colombian airports served by AA in 2016.
BRU - Brussels, Belgium: a terror bombing at departures 22 Mar 2016 has impacted BRU and security procedures have changed and intensified as it slowly reopens.
DUB - Dublin, Ireland: AA passengers departing to the USA pass through airport security to the airside departures area with shops and lounges - followed by US Customs and Border Protection (customs and immigration) formalities and TSA security, as this is one of several pre-clearance airports (the aircraft arrives in the USA as a domestic flight). Please discuss DUB in the dedicated thread - link.
LHR - Some members report more extensive and intrusive questioning of AA USA-bound passengers. It doesn't seem different than questioning that has been used on departing passengers elsewhere (e.g. AMS, BRU, CDG, FCO, FRA, MAD in the wiki author's experience), but the intensity could vary - influenced by current security status or information in possession of local, airport, airline or other security and intelligence entities.
MEX - México City, Mexico: Hand baggage inspection tables are generally set up at the jetbridge for further examination of documents and carry-on items. Though passengers are said to be randomly selected, the first passengers boarding are often selected.
Enhanced AA airport security screening procedures, questions (master thd)
Nov 24, 2017, 9:49 pm
#271
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
And though ICTS is based in The Netherlands, it’s worthwhile to think it was established largely by Israeli Shin Bet and ex-El Al personnel . Perhaps it’s as much about how one answers the questions as the actual responses.
Nov 25, 2017, 6:49 am
#272
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
They did stop an attempted bombing of an El Al flight when a young woman disclosed she had been given a “gift” to take back with her that turned out to be a bomb. Just one example.
And though ICTS is based in The Netherlands, it’s worthwhile to think it was established largely by Israeli Shin Bet and ex-El Al personnel . Perhaps it’s as much about how one answers the questions as the actual responses.
And though ICTS is based in The Netherlands, it’s worthwhile to think it was established largely by Israeli Shin Bet and ex-El Al personnel . Perhaps it’s as much about how one answers the questions as the actual responses.
Nov 25, 2017, 7:22 am
#273
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Yes, it's all how one answers the question and not what they give as an answer. There is no way the agents know what gym memberships are in some random town in the world (even Google will be hard pressed to keep up with that). If properly trained using the question "Are you carrying a bomb or intend to do harm to your flight" would do just as good. Even accomplished liars have tells if one is observant enough.
I also wonder if this ultimately is AA pursuing the original plan, where they sent AA personnel to Israel to be trained but ultimately did not actually use those employees for security training g within AA. (I know one person who was sent and ultimately worked as a Premium Services / lounge agent in the US.)
Nov 25, 2017, 11:04 am
#274
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,434
I continue to believe it's better to play along than to risk a significant delay or other hassle. The idea that resistance will lead to rethinking the policy or otherwise strike a blow for freedom seems silly, given the small number of travelers likely to resist.
Nov 25, 2017, 6:34 pm
#276
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,403
I don't think there is a computerized list of questions. They practice with a lot of career, pet, hobby, and geography-related questions. But they don't know the answers.
The ICTS, Swissport, etc. people act like they're Clarice Starling, but they don't have a background in criminology. Moreover, they don't know how far US suburbs are from the airport, how much a gym membership costs, or what classes are required to become an engineer. They're only taught to ASK questions. Any answer will do. Do you really think the American Airlines contract staff know the name of my school headmaster from form 5?
I do encourage you to take the class on asking the questions. I got a 100 on the test; I even have my certificate.
http://chameleonassociates.com/hoste...y-questioning/
That course helped me understand just how pointless and flawed the training is.
The ICTS, Swissport, etc. people act like they're Clarice Starling, but they don't have a background in criminology. Moreover, they don't know how far US suburbs are from the airport, how much a gym membership costs, or what classes are required to become an engineer. They're only taught to ASK questions. Any answer will do. Do you really think the American Airlines contract staff know the name of my school headmaster from form 5?
I do encourage you to take the class on asking the questions. I got a 100 on the test; I even have my certificate.
http://chameleonassociates.com/hoste...y-questioning/
That course helped me understand just how pointless and flawed the training is.
Nov 25, 2017, 8:47 pm
#277
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ASE
Programs: UA 1MM, AA1MM PLTPRO, Hertz PC, National EXC, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton/Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,357
These questions and those who ask them are a total joke. I was asked them by the Agent checking me in at the Flagship check-in at LHR. Whether she or DHS did it, I got SSSS's. FML. It was actually one of the more efficient, if not pointless SSSS experiences that I've had. The ICTS agent swiped me and my open bags for explosives. One of his colleagues was proactively seeking people out in the gate area with SSSS on their boarding pass ahead of time so that I was able to board with my boarding group in Business having already been scanned!
Dec 1, 2017, 1:44 pm
#278
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1
Just transfered via LHR on AA -- NEVER again
I thought this was an LHR thing as the facility isn't really known for sanity (it was designed by a member of the Spanish Inquisition, unexpectedly of course).
But now knowing that this is all AA and their fetish for Secuirty Theatre, I will use other carriers in the future unless no other option exists.
I had 2h40m between flights but it was all taken up by the security theatre audition to get my magic sticker in T5, the T5 to T3 transfer, then the death march out to my gate in T3 which was in another time zone.
The only reason I was on AA was for a client who paid the fare.
Next time I'll ask for other arrangements.
But now knowing that this is all AA and their fetish for Secuirty Theatre, I will use other carriers in the future unless no other option exists.
I had 2h40m between flights but it was all taken up by the security theatre audition to get my magic sticker in T5, the T5 to T3 transfer, then the death march out to my gate in T3 which was in another time zone.
The only reason I was on AA was for a client who paid the fare.
Next time I'll ask for other arrangements.
Dec 2, 2017, 4:16 pm
#279
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: PDX
Programs: AA Plat, Nexus
Posts: 358
So asking questions that they can't know the answer to is security? I don't believe that the staff are adequately (if at all) trained to detect subtle signs of discomfort of the facial issues involved in lying (which would make it useful) so more theater
As for AA MW - the pitiful tiny amounts they give you aren't close to the 100 ml limit!
As for AA MW - the pitiful tiny amounts they give you aren't close to the 100 ml limit!
I’ve always wondered how one is meant to distinguish the subtle signs of discomfort involved in lying from the subtle signs of discomfort in answering futile security theater questions.
Dec 11, 2017, 1:28 am
#280
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 389
TSA pre check at LHR
i was rebooked from the cancelled BA 67 flight to PHL today to an AA flight. I was “screened” not seemingly by a security agent but by the bag drop lady who spoke very heavily accented English which was difficult to understand. Her line of questioning led me to believe she was not trained in such techniques (anyone who’s flown from TLV will have seen the experts at work). After 5 minutes of unskillful questioning I was on my way.
But the most surprising part was that whilst queuing I noticed some others apparently not being questioned in a similar manner. Perhaps I am “special”. Curious to know when the premium bag drop staff began to manage this function (I usually fly BA and have never been questioned in such a manner by them when flying to be US).
But the most surprising part was that whilst queuing I noticed some others apparently not being questioned in a similar manner. Perhaps I am “special”. Curious to know when the premium bag drop staff began to manage this function (I usually fly BA and have never been questioned in such a manner by them when flying to be US).
Dec 11, 2017, 3:24 am
#282
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AS, AA, BA, SQ
Posts: 164
TSA Precheck is a programme in the US that allows pax to skip certain security measures (ie laptops in seperate bins, shoes stay on, metal detectors vs nude-o-scopes) and is only implemented in US airports. Since you were rebooked it may have appeared to the agent that you had booked a one way international flight on the day of departure and that often raises red flags. They were probably just following policy to ask a bunch of questions when reservations are suspicious. Maybe they were just really interested in your trip. But that is definitely not TSA precheck.
Dec 11, 2017, 3:58 am
#283
Join Date: May 2003
Location: TLL
Programs: OZ Diamond, BA Gold, Bonvoy Ambassador, HH Gold
Posts: 4,412
There is currently enhanced security on flights going to the United States from Europe. Started about a month ago.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.415326973e99
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.415326973e99
Dec 11, 2017, 4:06 am
#284
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,749
i was rebooked from the cancelled BA 67 flight to PHL today to an AA flight. I was “screened” not seemingly by a security agent but by the bag drop lady who spoke very heavily accented English which was difficult to understand. Her line of questioning led me to believe she was not trained in such techniques (anyone who’s flown from TLV will have seen the experts at work). After 5 minutes of unskillful questioning I was on my way.
But the most surprising part was that whilst queuing I noticed some others apparently not being questioned in a similar manner. Perhaps I am “special”. Curious to know when the premium bag drop staff began to manage this function (I usually fly BA and have never been questioned in such a manner by them when flying to be US).
But the most surprising part was that whilst queuing I noticed some others apparently not being questioned in a similar manner. Perhaps I am “special”. Curious to know when the premium bag drop staff began to manage this function (I usually fly BA and have never been questioned in such a manner by them when flying to be US).
I even got the whole shebang when flying on a United BRU-LHR hop a few years ago.
[not sure why you chose the title you did; TSA Pre✓ seems to have nothing to do with your story]
Dec 11, 2017, 5:06 am
#285
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: BA Gold, AA PLT PRO, AGR, Strawberry (Nordic Choice), Marriott Bonvoy
Posts: 4,249
I think he mentioned it because according to the Washington Post article posted above: "The new procedures do not apply to those who are part of TSA’s Pre-Check program, which offers expedited screening for travelers who have undergone background checks."