HMPS

In that case you have to learn/ practice question ( to be asked thru the judge) such as, Mr AA are you familiar with your company's practice re IDBs in such cases ? If he says generally we ask for volunteers....then ask if he was there at that time like you were, or how sure is he that all policies and rules are followed ALL the time....you get the drift ?

gpicur

FWIW: Here is an excerpt from a demand letter that I drafted fro the OP (I quoted the US Airways CoC): Section 10-01 of the CoC which reads �When US Airways determines that there are not enough available seats on a flight to accommodate all customers holding confirmed reservations and tickets, US Airways WILL take the actions specified below regarding voluntary and/or involuntary denied boarding�.10-01: US Airways WILL request customers to relinquish their seats voluntarily in exchange for compensation�. Section 10-02 states � IF a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, US Airways may be required to deny boarding involuntarily..� Clearly 10-02 implies that some effort will be made (see 10-01) to identify or otherwise ask for volunteers to relinquish their seats.

Exec_Plat

Head them off and point out that the fact that DOT doesnt require compensation does not mean they can skip that step if they contractually agreed to do it.

I'd bet the response will be 'small plane, weight and safety, no IDB'.

gpicur

Not sure if you saw this post:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...assengers.html

American was fined over overbooking shenanigans; there is some similarity to your case. I hope you were able to resolve your issues.

m44

I agree with gpicur .
I disagree with those who predict that you will loose or other calamities. Just formulate your claim clearly and go to the small claims court. That is what they are for - small claims - and let the judge figure out how and what law he wants to apply. No matter what you do AA will have to do something with the complaint. It does not look good on corporate blotter to do not show in court.
Make sure that you use proper airline Contract of Carriage CoC0 terms: AA or US?
Read the terms and figure out what they mean.
Example:
In AA CoC you do not deserve compensation if: "Yu are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons". Sure enough clear for everybody above? Really? From my experience what we are told by agents most of the time has nothing to do with reality. Is it so difficult of imagine the substitution to smaller plane just because that is equipment on which the only available substitute pilot is certified and the substitution is done because the other pilot is stuck in city jail. Is this "operational" exception? I would let judge decide.

yourreturn

Hi Everyone,

A big thanks to gpicur for posting, "American Airlines Fined $20K For Failing To Adequately Compensate Bumped Passengers."

In reading the text. It is now clear what happened to me.
According to the Gate Agent, AA changed the US Airway policy regarding denied boarding a few weeks prior to my flight. Like the article about the AA fine stated, I was probably reclassified as a volunteer even though I was not a volunteer, "reclassify a passenger who was denied boarding involuntarily as a volunteer." And thus I was not offered compensation. The gate agent mentioned something about volunteers without compensation, when she denied my boarding. Even though I did not volunteer, they must have listed me as a volunteer despite the fact that I told them I needed to be on this flight.

AA wrote to me today, "The Department of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division has forwarded your recent correspondence regarding the difficulties you encountered on June 19, 2015 when you were unable to board Flight 4891 from Charlottesville. We appreciate the opportunity to reply to your concerns."

Then later wrote, "our Customer Relations agent issued a $200 voucher to you on July 28 along with an apology and explanation of Denied Boarding rules. The compensation that should have been issued at the gate was a $400 voucher; therefore, I have issued an additional $200 voucher."

Back to the AA fine article, "49 U.S.C. � 41712, 14 CFR Part 250 mandates compensation and other protections for passengers who hold �confirmed reserved space� have complied with the carrier�s contract of
carriage, have met the carrier�s requirements with respect to check-in time and appearance at the gate, and have been involuntarily denied boarding because their flight was oversold (�eligible passengers�). Specifically, under most circumstances, Part 250 mandates that a carrier pay Denied Boarding Compensation (DBC) to eligible passengers �on the day and [at the] place the denied boarding occurs,� with �cash or an immediately negotiable check for the appropriate amount of compensation.� 14 CFR 250.8."

The statement by the AA agent clearly states that I should have been giving money at the place of denied boarding.

Strangely the AA agent also stated that the plane I flew on had 27 seats, when in fact it has 37 seats.

So, now that I have $400 in vouchers, instead of $200. After way too much time and energy, the question is, do I deserve more? Now we know that AA violated 14 CFR 250.8, and has now admitted to it. This further means that on this flight route, and perhaps others, that they should have asked for volunteers, and should be offering the volunteers vouchers, and that the weight restriction is no excuse for this matter, especially since the weight restriction is normal on this route with this plane.

Also it reveals AA's policy to reclassify denied boarding as a volunteer, and trying to avoid paying any vouchers or compensation. DOT letter clearly states that overbooking without giving compensation is "a practice that would otherwise be an unfair and deceptive practice or an unfair method of competition within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. � 41712".

Anyone know a good airline attorney? Or have additional suggestions. I think this is worth running by them because I really don't think it is right for AA to be doing this to anyone else.

thanks again

Exec_Plat

You dont need an attorney.

Find out what was due to you in cash for IDB.

Write them back and cite the law, that they were fined for this violation, that they did this to you, that the $400 in VOUCHERS is unacceptable and you will require $xxxx in cash or check within 14 days or this is going to a DOT complaint.

Send this in PAPER form, copies of their emails in which they admit their wrongdoing, certified/registered to their exec office.

If all you do is tell them "I want cash not vouchers" you can do that. paper. Certified. DOT if they dont.

yourreturn

Since the law states that weight restricted flights are exempt from IBD compensation, I don't think I have a good case to ask for more than the value of the one way flight, which they did finally give me in vouchers. I am fine with a voucher because I fly enough to make use of it. I guess for breaking the law they might be fined by the DOT, but I think I will have a hard time getting more money.

mark4009

While the following letter may be more than you want to know and less than you need, it may give you a bit more encouragement than you've received thus far:


December 9, 2015


Mr. Andre Delattre, Executive Director
U.S. Public Interest Research Group Education Fund
294 Washington St., Suite 500
Boston, MA 02108

Dear Mr. Delattre:

I recently obtained a $500 small claims court judgment against American Airlines for its failure to provide a functioning business class seat on a flight from Miami to Los Angeles in September of this year. I enclose my check in the amount of that judgment as a donation to your organization. My hope is that you will use these funds to support the kind of analysis and reporting of airline industry consumer complaints contained in your April 2014 publication, �The Unfriendly Skies, Five Years of Airline Passenger Complaints to the Department of Transportation.� http://www.uspirg.org/reports/usf/unfriendly-skies

My decision to take American to [Los Angeles Superior] court was prompted by more than what, in isolation, might seem to be a minor inconvenience. Rather, it was the final realization that an airline to which I�ve been loyal for thirty-five years and two million miles; that I�ve stuck with through a bankruptcy, a disruptive merger, and the devaluation of my frequent flyer miles; and that is now enjoying record profits, conducts its operations as if the customer were an afterthought. Their handling of the broken seat issue is a representative example of my recent experiences.

My flight was the fourth leg of a Los Angeles to Lima round-trip. I purchased a First/Business class ticket for me and my wife because, notwithstanding two surgeries, I experience pain in my lower back. Accordingly, when I boarded the Miami-Los Angeles flight I checked to see that my assigned seat was in working order. What I discovered, unfortunately, was that the seat would not recline from a bolt upright position.

I called the problem to the attention of both a flight attendant and a ground supervisor. After fiddling with the seat mechanism, they advised me there was no time available to call a mechanic to the cabin and, as there was no other seat available, my only option was to fly for six hours in an upright position.

The day after returning to Los Angeles, I informed American�s Customer Relations Department of the problem I�d encountered. In response, I received an email stating, �Your comfort is important to us, and we are sorry the seat you were assigned on your flight was not up to standard.� I replied, stating that their expression of sympathy did not resolve the problem and that further discussion was in order. The following day I received an email from American stating they were sorry my seat couldn�t be repaired before the flight and, �as a gesture of goodwill,� they were sending me a $300 voucher for use in purchasing future travel.

My initial reaction was to accept the voucher and be done with it. After further consideration, however, I found myself irritated by the fact that if I accepted American�s offer, I would be conceding, in effect, that the airline had done everything it promised to do when I bought my ticket. As American obviously hadn�t given me what I paid for, I decided to reject the �gesture of goodwill� and demand a refund of an equitable portion of the ticket price.

Shortly after informing American of my decision, I received a call from a Customer Relations representative who said that a partial refund was out of the question. As she put it in a follow-up email, �It would be an exceptional situation in any business to give a refund when the product is used.� In other words, I�d �used� my First/Business Class ticket by climbing into a broken front cabin seat in Miami and climbing out of it in Los Angeles. (Thus, contrary to widely held belief, there is only one class of service on American, �Get-you-there� or �Why?� class.)

This exchange was the last of the many last straws I�ve vowed during my decades as an American customer. It confirmed, yet again, that with rare exceptions, American�s policy in dealing with customer complaints is to deny or deflect discussion of fault, and, if the customer persists, to offer up a settlement cloaked as a �gesture of goodwill.�

Prior to the trial in small claims court, I asked American to provide me with the maintenance record of the broken seat. On the day of the trial, an American representative presented me with a document that showed the maintenance crew in Miami had bolted the seat in an upright position before I boarded the plane. Ironically, the action was apparently taken in response to a prior passenger�s complaint that the seat would not move from a reclined to an upright position. As the American small claims representative informed me, while the FAA takes no position on whether a seat must recline, it is apparently written in stone that, to be flightworthy, it must be capable of maintaining an upright position.

I won�t extend this already overlong letter with details of the small claims trial. Suffice it to say that the judge was not persuaded by American�s argument that it owed me nothing because it had delivered me to my destination, nor moved by the suggestion that I should have asked my spouse of fifty years to take the broken seat. In the end, he decided that American should be held accountable for a broken promise to a paying passenger. That conclusion, more than the compensation that accompanied it, has made this effort worthwhile.

Regards,



[Signed]

cc: W. Douglas Parker, Chairman and CEO
American Airlines Group, Inc.

ijgordon

Thanks for sharing!
Personally, I'd be very interested to hear the details. It *sounds* to me that the SCC (or at least your specific judge) used common sense and fairness over technicalities (I.e., we got you to LAX per the CoC).
I've always been so inclined to suggest here that aggrieved travelers pursue remedies in SCC if customer service and a DOT complaint don't generate satisfactory responses. Though admittedly I haven't done so myself (have never had the need). Others (certain posters in particular) off the bat tell people they'd be wasting their time -- I.e. because AA got you from A to B.

It's nice to hear that those one-sided contracts of adhesion can basically be tossed and the little guy does have a fighting chance.

Anyway, would love to hear any details you're inclined to share!

mark4009

One might consider whether AA has waived any claim that its contractual obligation is limited to getting you there. You'll find on this and in other places on the Web that AA regularly responds to complaints such as mine with "gestures of goodwill." In substance, one might argue, these are,in substance, settlements of breach of contract claims. Even if they do not amount collectively to a waiver of a contractual provision, however, one can probably find an example of a prior "gesture of goodwill" to suit almost every situation.

mark4009

I should add that DOT suggests that consumers consider small claims court for redress:
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publications/telljudge.htm

Exec_Plat

Thanks mark4009.

It seems that judges get treated like crap by airlines as well...

well done.

mark4009

Tx much.