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AA endorses ticket to UA, UA can't find ticket / won't allow boarding

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Old Apr 5, 2015, 3:50 pm
  #136  
nrr
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If itn were booked through a Competent (does one exist) Travel Agent, would the end result play out better(?)--would they re-issue the ticket, and deal with complications (like OP had) separately?
[Possibly unrelated: but if I purchase a ticket on aa.com, I don't get the confirmation and ticket number for an hour or two; when I've dealt with an agency, that step is immediate.]
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Old Apr 5, 2015, 3:55 pm
  #137  
 
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Originally Posted by dia1
Thank you, very helpful to know this!
Some follow-up questions for one of you knowledgeable souls.

What happens in the case where the flight in question is early in an itinerary? For example:
RT ticket has six segments: out 1AA 2AA 3LH, return 4LH 5AA 6AA
Flight 2 (AA) goes mx and the passenger is put on BA for segments 2 and 3 to get the passenger to the intended final outbound destination. (Assume that these flights are not code-shared with AA.) Based on info above, I assume coupon control must go to BA.

Does BA then have coupon control of the return itinerary? If so, is control transferred back to AA at some point and does someone have to do that manually? (This could matter a lot if something goes wrong with flights 4, 5, or 6.)

Related question--Would LH cancel segment 4 because segment 3 was not flown?
The response to your question is being written and different scenarios will be posted here once available as they are rather complex. Depending on the different scenarios presented, each will have a slightly different outcome.

Scenario 1: The simple/ideal situation (this would most likely work out for the passenger)

This “simple” situation assumes that the original booking was either done by AA or through a travel agent who uses Sabre (same system as AA) and the Sabre PNR holds all of the live ticketing segments.

Assuming your itinerary is as follows.
1. AA DFW-JFK
2. AA JFK-LHR
3. LH LHR-FRA
4. LH FRA-LHR
5. AA LHR-JFK
6. AA JFK-DFW

This is what the PNR in each respective system would look like immediately before the MX of the AA JFK-LHR segment.
Your Sabre PNR (same system as on AA) will show all of the segments as “live” segments.
1. AA DFW-JFK **LIVE**
2. AA JFK-LHR **LIVE**
3. LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**
4. LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
5. AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
6. AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

The Amadeus PNR (same system as that used by LH, and also BA later in this example) will show the segments as follows.
AA JFK-LHR **INFO**
LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **INFO**

The coupon status of your all your e-ticket coupons (denoted as “C”) immediately before the MX of the Segment 2 will be as follows (note: each e-ticket is limited to 4 segments).
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111111
C1 AA DFW-JFK CONTROL/AA
C2 AA JFK-LHR CONTROL/AA
C3 LH LHR-FRA CONTROL/LH
C4 LH FRA-LHR CONTROL/LH
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111112 (conjunction)
C1 AA LHR-JFK CONTROL/AA
C2 AA JFK-DFW CONTROL/AA

If AA JFK-LHR goes MX and the pax gets rebooked to BA JFK-LHR and BA LHR-FRA by AA, the PNRs in each respective system would be as follows:

Your Sabre PNR (same system as on AA) will show all of the segments as “live” segments.
1. AA DFW-JFK **LIVE**
2. BA JFK-LHR **LIVE** (was the AA JFK-LHR segment cancelled by AA)
3. BA LHR-FRA **LIVE** (was the LH LHR-FRA segment cancelled by AA)
4. LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
5. AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
6. AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

The Amadeus PNR (same system as that used by LH, and also BA) will show the segments as follows.
BA JFK-LHR **LIVE** (was AA JFK-LHR **INFO**)
BA LHR-FRA **LIVE** (was LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**)
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **INFO**

The AA agent will also need to exchange the affect coupons of the e-ticket so that the passenger can be accepted onto the new flights booked. Once this is done, the pax will have two sets of e-tickets which we will refer to as “the original set” and “the new set”.

The original set will appear as follows (with the coupon status updated):

E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111111
C1 AA DFW-JFK FLOWN (assuming the pax flew this segment before arriving in JFK to find out AA JFK-LHR has gone MX)
C2 AA JFK-LHR **EXCHANGED** (Exchanged to new set due to INVOL)
C3 LH LHR-FRA **EXCHANGED** (Exchanged to new set due to INVOL)
C4 LH FRA-LHR CONTROL/LH (available for pax to use on return journey)
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111112 (conjunction)
C1 AA LHR-JFK CONTROL/AA (available for pax to use on return journey)
C2 AA JFK-DFW CONTROL/AA (available for pax to use on return journey)

The new set will appear as follows:
E-Ticket Number: 001 2222222221 (issued in exchange for 001 1111111111 C2/C3)
C1 BA JFK-LHR CONTROL/BA
C2 BA LHR-FRA CONTROL/BA

Coming up next: What happens if the booking originated from a travel agency who used Worldspan (or any other GDS besides Sabre or Amadeus) and neither AA, LH or BA have access to all the live segments. Stay tuned as an improper move can cause the passenger to lose his return flights!

Scenario 2A: More Complex Situation (this would most likely work out for the passenger if the AA agent knows what he/she is doing)

IMPORTANT: In order for this to work smoothly, AA must let LH know that the pax will not be showing up for the LH LHR-FRA segment (either by teletype or by calling them) or advise the pax to do so.
This “more complex” situation assumes that the original booking was done through a travel agent who does not use Sabre (same system as AA) or Amadeus (same system as LH and BA). For the purposes of this example, let’s assume the travel agent made the booking in Worldspan.

Assuming your itinerary is as follows.
1 AA DFW-JFK
2 AA JFK-LHR
3 LH LHR-FRA
4 LH FRA-LHR
5 AA LHR-JFK
6 AA JFK-DFW

This is what the PNR in each respective system would look like immediately before the MX of the AA JFK-LHR segment.
Your Worldspan PNR would show all the segments as “live” segments.
1 AA DFW-JFK **LIVE**
2 AA JFK-LHR **LIVE**
3 LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**
4 LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
5 AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
6 AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

Your Sabre PNR (same system as on AA) will show the segments as follows.
AA DFW-JFK **LIVE**
AA JFK-LHR **LIVE**
LH LHR-FRA **INFO**
LH FRA-LHR **INFO**
AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

The Amadeus PNR (same system as that used by LH, and also BA later in this example) will show the segments as follows.
AA JFK-LHR **INFO**
LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **INFO**

The coupon status of your all your e-ticket coupons (denoted as “C”) immediately before the MX of the Segment 2 will be as follows (note: each e-ticket is limited to 4 segments).
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111111
C1 AA DFW-JFK CONTROL/AA
C2 AA JFK-LHR CONTROL/AA
C3 LH LHR-FRA CONTROL/LH
C4 LH FRA-LHR CONTROL/LH
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111112 (conjunction)
C1 AA LHR-JFK CONTROL/AA
C2 AA JFK-DFW CONTROL/AA

If AA JFK-LHR goes MX and the pax gets rebooked to BA JFK-LHR and BA LHR-FRA by AA, the PNRs in each respective system would be as follows:

Your Worldspan PNR (back at your travel agent who is probably wondering what is going with all the mess due to incoming “cancellation” messages from AA) would show the segments as follows:

AA DFW-JFK **LIVE** (just flown)
AA JFK-LHR **LIVE** / **CANCELLED** (note: there may or may not be any indication as to where the pax has been protected to)
LH LHR-FRA **LIVE** / **CANCELLED** (note: there may or may not be any indication as to where the pax has been protected to)
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

Your Sabre PNR (same system as on AA) will be as follows once the rebooking is done by AA.
AA DFW-JFK **LIVE** (just flown)
BA JFK-LHR **LIVE** (replaces the AA JFK-LHR **LIVE** segment cancelled by AA)
BA LHR-FRA **LIVE** (replaces the LH LHR-FRA **INFO** segment cancelled by AA)
LH FRA-LHR **INFO**
AA LHR-JFK **LIVE**
AA JFK-DFW **LIVE**

IMPORTANT: In order for this to work smoothly, AA must let LH know that the pax will not be showing up for the LH LHR-FRA segment (either by teletype or by calling) or have the pax contact LH themselves.

The Amadeus PNR (same system as that used by LH, and also BA) will show the segments as follows (assuming PNR indexing occurred properly behind the scenes after AA did the rebooking).
BA JFK-LHR **LIVE** (was AA JFK-LHR **INFO**)
BA LHR-FRA **LIVE** (was LH LHR-FRA **LIVE**)
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **INFO**

In the event PNR indexing over at Amadeus did not occur correctly behind the scenes after AA did the rebooking, the pax might have two separate PNRs over at Amadeus which we will refer to as “Amadeus PNR Original” and “Amadeus PNR New”:
Amadeus PNR Original:

AA JFK-LHR **INFO** (no update received from AA regarding cancelled flight)
LH LHR-FRA **LIVE** / **CANCELLED** (cancelled by AA via teletype or phone call)
LH FRA-LHR **LIVE**
AA LHR-JFK **INFO**

Amadeus PNR New:
BA JFK-LHR **LIVE** (created when AA rebooked the pax due to AA JFK-LHR going mx)
BA LHR-FRA **LIVE** (created when AA rebooked the pax due to AA JFK-LHR going mx)

The AA agent will also need to exchange the affect coupons of the e-ticket so that the passenger can be accepted onto the new flights booked. Once this is done, the pax will have two sets of e-tickets which we will refer to as “the original set” and “the new set”.
The original set will appear as follows (with the coupon status updated):

E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111111
C1 AA DFW-JFK FLOWN (assuming the pax flew this segment before arriving in JFK to find out AA JFK-LHR has gone MX)
C2 AA JFK-LHR **EXCHANGED** (Exchanged to new set due to INVOL)
C3 LH LHR-FRA **EXCHANGED** (Exchanged to new set due to INVOL)
C4 LH FRA-LHR CONTROL/LH (available for pax to use on return journey)
E-Ticket Number: 001 1111111112 (conjunction)
C1 AA LHR-JFK CONTROL/AA (available for pax to use on return journey)
C2 AA JFK-DFW CONTROL/AA (available for pax to use on return journey)

The new set will appear as follows:
E-Ticket Number: 001 2222222221 (issued in exchange for 001 1111111111 C2/C3)
C1 BA JFK-LHR CONTROL/BA
C2 BA LHR-FRA CONTROL/BA

Anybody care to guess what will happen in Scenario 2B where the AA agent forgets to notify LH (either by phone call or teletype) that the pax will not be showing up for the LH LHR-FRA flight?

Last edited by daniellam; Apr 5, 2015 at 5:42 pm Reason: Added more content
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Old Apr 6, 2015, 1:34 pm
  #138  
 
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Thank you, daniellam, for taking that time and effort. Interesting and potentially useful information for a bad situation. Of course, it makes sense that the coupons whose control is transferred are for single flights as opposed to for the itinerary. (I was too dense to recognize the obvious-- that these e-ticket coupons are like the individual pages of an old hard-copy ticket packet.)
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Old Apr 6, 2015, 5:00 pm
  #139  
 
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this story beyond astonishing

Originally Posted by BayAArea
Now that it is 3am and I am checked into my hotel room in Torrance (closest available room to LAX on short notice), let's see if I can recap today's event, and ask for opinions.

Flying YYZ-LAX-SFO to get home after a business meeting in freezing Toronto. Flight lands at LAX at 9PM, my connection was supposed to be onto 5408 at 10:35PM. I turn my phone on to see a text saying 5408 was canceled, only to find that AA re-booked me on a flight that already left by the time I deplaned at LAX (AA not off to a good start here).

(On a side note, the conspiracy theorist in me always puts his antenna up when they cancel the last flight of the night - sometimes I think they check the loads, and goal seek for a cancellation. They never gave me a reason why it was actually canceled but I digress.)

AA Customer Service rep says not to fear, there is a United flight at 10:30 (flight 462) and she'll call over there and put me (along with eventually about 15 others) on that flight. Hangs up the phone, prints me out the itinerary and tells me how to get to Terminal 7 (through the catacombs of LAX).

I walk over to United, they print me a boarding pass (boarding group 5, seat 37C - whatever, just want to get home), and then tells me the plane is delayed 2 hours and won't board until 12:30AM so sit tight.

Not happy, but hey, those are the breaks. I sit for two hours, at 12:30AM boarding starts. By 12:40AM we get to group 5, I hand the boarding pass and it doesn't scan. Tells me to see the agent, along with 4 other people who were bumped from AA to UA. Some others from the AA flight boarded without incident.

After a few minutes, it gets surreal. Agent says that American reserved us on the flight, but never transferred payment to UA - as such we cant board until they get paid immediately. Now starts a fruitless effort to find anyone over at AA still there (it's now almost 1AM), then the gate agent from United claims to call some "help desk number at AA" and gets no answer.

The senior gate agent walks over and says that the UA crew will time out if the plane doesn't leave momentarily - I remind him that we all had printed United boarding passes with a seat - usually that means you have crossed the t's and dotted the i's right? He says no, the only time it would show up is when it scans and reflects that AA screwed up - he then tells us as a matter of fact "look, I'm not waiting to figure this out for you 5 and potentially sacrificing a plane full of people. This plane is leaving."

Long story short, the plane leaves with us standing at the ticket counter after waiting two hours with what we thought were boarding passes in our pockets. To make matters worse, UA punts the whole problem, and says that since they weren't paid, we are AA's customers and have to get in touch with them to reschedule flights, or get hotel vouchers, etc etc. (it's now past 1AM, there isn't a soul in the airport). Then just basically told us to have a nice night and sorry about it but it's AA's mess.

So I rebooked through the PLT line on a flight this morning, and found a hotel on my own dime and cabbed it over here (LAX hotels all sold out).

A few questions/observations:
1) Anyone ever run into this before?
2) United wanted no part of the hassle; they could have easily boarded us and figured it out with AA first thing this morning - the agent had the nerve to say "Sir, you look like a businessman. Would you ever perform a service before you got paid?" I responded that 95% of businesses operate in that exact manner, they generate an invoice and collect payment after the date. He claimed that AA would have never paid. I reminded him that they are two of the largest airlines in the world, are separated by a freaking hallway, and this is the third time I have been Rule 240'd between airlines in my 15 years of flying, this isn't the first time it ever happened.
3) That being said, at the end of the day, AA dropped the ball here bigtime. UA had the right (albeit some stones to take the hard line at 1AM at deserted LAX) to refuse to fly us and they did so. In terms of compensation, obviously I am going to show up tomorrow with a hotel bill, a food bill, two cab receipts and expect reimbursement. But I think AA could make me whole otherwise, whether it be monetary vouchers, or SWUs or something. I feel like this isn't your usual "hey sorry for the delay, here's 5000 miles" situation.

Sorry for the lengthy email - I am exhausted, wired, and venting all at the same time.
I'm just catching up after a long trip, but if you haven't received some satisfaction from this most amazing screwup, contact Elliott.org, a consumer advocate of some clout. Personally, I think each airline should give you 100K miles.
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Old Apr 7, 2015, 3:23 am
  #140  
 
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Some amazing info in this thread. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Sorry for OP.
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Old Jun 11, 2015, 9:00 pm
  #141  
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Another AA passenger rerouted to UA and not allowed to board-- this one posted on the UA forum:

AA pax pushed to UA but DB -- is this IDB? {Likely no}
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Old Jun 12, 2015, 7:14 am
  #142  
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Would asking for a paper ticket in that situation work?

Or a written guarantee that I have a seat on the other airline's flight? (Given the latter, if the other airline's GA says I don't, I'd be perfectly happy to buy one and demand the first airline pay for it.)
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Old Jun 12, 2015, 9:41 am
  #143  
 
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Due to a MX problem ORD-CDG earlier this year AA pushed me to Delta (yeah, we were all surprised to see that DL actually had an own metal flight ORD-CDG) then on Malaysia Airlines to Kuala Lumpur from there. At the Flagship Lounge in ORD the wonderfully nice agents printed my boarding pass for the DL flight via the web. At boarding it was rejected by the scanner. I was told I was not showing as on the flight, but oddly, my coworker, who was in the same record had no problem. After a LOT of furious typing by the Delta lead agent and a "don't ask how I did it" I was issued a new boarding pass and made it on board.

In Paris, I had exactly the same issue with the Malaysia Airlines connecting flight. It took them an hour of calling, typing, waiting, more calling and they finally gave up and made a totally new ticket and told me they would work it out later with AA. Fortunately, I was able to fly.
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Old Dec 5, 2016, 3:02 pm
  #144  
 
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AA ticket reissued on United, but United computers unable to see my reservation?

On 12/4, I was attempting to fly out of a regional airport. My American Envoy flight was cancelled, AA ExecPlt desk rebooked me on a American Envoy flight out on a nearby airport.

That flight was then cancelled.

AA auto-rebooked me on a flight tomorrow morning. I was at the same time on the phone with exec platinum desk, getting put on a United flight for this evening.

The United flight is confirmed with AA, the ticket is reissued. I go to United counter, they don't find my name on the PNR. A lengthy back and forth happens, and my ticket is reissued on United at least 3 times. My ticket was never found on United's system. I was never able to board the United flight. My ticket just wouldn't reissue itself on United.

This happened to another couple at the airport. The AA agents blamed it on United computers, and/or the AA synchronization process. I have never heard this, or had any problems swapping from an AA flight to United flight. This regional airport spent no less than 3 hours......with AA IT, reissuing tickets, even logging in to United computers from the United counter - and confirming what United was saying (I don't exist in their system).

What happened? Was this a temporary problem? Is there a fix these individuals were all unaware of?

AA was eventually able to pull my ticket back in to their system, and I just rebooked on a AA flight today; but I want to know why I had challenges yesterday
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Old Dec 5, 2016, 3:17 pm
  #145  
 
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I don't know about temporary but it's not the first such story to be posted here. This thread described a case where a pax was given a boarding pass for UA but not allowed on the plane. It's a long thread but towards the end are some detailed descriptions of the interactions that goes on when a ticket is handed from one airline to another.

Last edited by JDiver; Dec 5, 2016 at 3:46 pm Reason: Redacted recurrent link
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Old Dec 5, 2016, 3:42 pm
  #146  
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I've had similar issues when AA endorsed my ticket to AS because of an AA aircraft going Tech.

Fortunately, the gates were across from each other at the same concourse, but I had to go back and forth and ultimately instruct AA personnel on what they were not doing (neither personnel would go speak, or even telephone, the other airline's personnel ): though they had endorsed my ticket, they had not released control to Alaska.@:-) The two AA people at the gate (smaller station, so they also work ticket counter) did not know they had to do this, or initially how to do this - though one of the two started here with TWA.

See the posts #127 and #137 by daniellam a few posts above this one for details.

Last edited by JDiver; Dec 5, 2016 at 3:47 pm
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Old Dec 5, 2016, 8:29 pm
  #147  
 
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Originally Posted by krlcomm
I'm with you on this one... do airlines issue boarding passes without a valid corresponding ticket? If they do that would seem to be rather unsafe?
I've had a boarding pass whilst aa.com said "ticket pending" and managed to travel (on an AA plane) before. I checked with the Admirals Club and they said my PNR looked fine. In the end their system didn't bother charging me for the flight but they soon corrected that once I contacted them.
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