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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old Oct 2, 14, 3:44 pm
  #1  
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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

American has applied to begin daily non-stop service between Los Angeles and Tokyo-Haneda on January 15, 2015. It is unclear if it would replace Los Angeles-Narita service. The proposed schedule uses the flight numbers AA 169/170, which suggest it might, but the actual proposal submitted to DOT does not make mention of it.

AA 169 LAX 1705-2200+1 HND 772 Daily
AA 170 HND 0130-1825-1 LAX 772 Daily

Delta seasonally suspended it's Seattle-Haneda route yesterday, and American is making the argument the slot should be transferred, while Delta will attempt to keep it dormant.

Proposal requires logging in:

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf91/679.pdf
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:24 am
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Finally announced:
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-air...-february-2016
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:25 am
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
Let me pull out what I feel are the most pertinent parts for our discussion here:

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m.

The LAX-HND flight will be operated with American's state-of-art Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.
Not a fan of those flight times...
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:29 am
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Originally Posted by TheBOSman View Post
Let me pull out what I feel are the most pertinent parts for our discussion here..
Good idea, thanks! ^
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:34 am
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Originally Posted by TheBOSman View Post


Not a fan of those flight times...
Considering how long it took AA just to acquire these slots, I expect they are not fans of these flight times either. I fully expect a retiming when/if AA can get better slots in a future allocation cycle.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:34 am
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Aren't those the flight times AA did NOT want?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:39 am
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Not optimal schedule, but hopefully AA will also put codes on JL's HND-TSA flights. I can really appreciate the ability to take an evening TSA-HND-LAX itinerary on the return trip to the U.S.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:47 am
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To put it out kindly, these times stink. Let's see how long this lasts. I'm taking bets that the arrangement beginning 2/11 doesn't last a full year before AA has to do something on LAX-TYO to avoid the money bloodletting.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:07 am
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Another relevant bit from the press release:

This new flight is a fantastic addition to our growing network to Asia and a great complement to our existing service to Tokyo Narita
The mention of Narita strongly suggests (to my reading) that LAX-NRT is sticking around at least at first.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:12 am
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I would bet that these were the best flight times AA could get for now, and that when slots are reallocated next at HND that they will do everything they can to get better flight times.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:14 am
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
Another relevant bit from the press release:



The mention of Narita strongly suggests (to my reading) that LAX-NRT is sticking around at least at first.
I give it a year before an equipment change.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
To put it out kindly, these times stink.
I do agree, but what better times could they ask for in an ideal world, subject to the constraint that they arrive in HND between 2200 and 0600 and depart between 0000 and 0600? AA's times are almost exactly the same as DL and UA have for their LAX-HND and SFO-HND flights; the only difference is that AA's HND departure is a bit more than an hour later (0130 vs 0010/0020). I suppose that hour could be improved, but I wouldn't say 0130 sucks much more than 0010.

An early morning arrival in HND would be better than the current late night, but with a midnight departure, that's not feasible.

It seems to me that, given the absurd constraints, these slot times aren't terrible and aren't appreciably different than the competition.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:29 am
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
AA's times are almost exactly the same as DL and UA have for their LAX-HND and SFO-HND flights; the only difference is that AA's HND departure is a bit more than an hour later (0130 vs 0010/0020). I suppose that hour could be improved, but I wouldn't say 0130 sucks much more than 0010.
Yup. The US carriers get the short end of the stick for HND slots.

The positive of these flight times is they allow a full business day at either end. And intra-Asia flights in/out of HND are well timed for connections.

Not to mention that it's always kind of cool to time travel backwards by a day on the return from HND.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by TheBOSman View Post
Not a fan of those flight times...
Originally Posted by ty97 View Post
Considering how long it took AA just to acquire these slots, I expect they are not fans of these flight times either. I fully expect a retiming when/if AA can get better slots in a future allocation cycle.
Originally Posted by AANYC1981 View Post
Aren't those the flight times AA did NOT want?
AA pulled a rabbit out of the hat here because the slot timings at HND (both arrival and departure) are almost exactly what AA had proposed.

As ashill pointed out, they're about the best timings possible given the operating constraints at HND and the absolute necessity that the flight offer sufficient connections at LAX.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:40 am
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
I do agree, but what better times could they ask for in an ideal world, subject to the constraint that they arrive in HND between 2200 and 0600 and depart between 0000 and 0600? AA's times are almost exactly the same as DL and UA have for their LAX-HND and SFO-HND flights; the only difference is that AA's HND departure is a bit more than an hour later (0130 vs 0010/0020). I suppose that hour could be improved, but I wouldn't say 0130 sucks much more than 0010.

An early morning arrival in HND would be better than the current late night, but with a midnight departure, that's not feasible.

It seems to me that, given the absurd constraints, these slot times aren't terrible and aren't appreciably different than the competition.
I wonder how much consideration they have given to an early morning arrival into HND, have the aircraft sit for 17 hours and then fly back to LAX. Surely those slots times are much better for those on the West Coast and enables JAL domestic connections at HND.
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