veliger

Delta and UA do this by selling FC upgrades to anyone with money, which I think works better.

I always want it, but obviously more on long trips. The AA domestic FC product is really almost as crappy as US, UA and Delta's, no matter what AA Cult members say.

Delta has the best system here. They hold back a number of FC seats until a few hours before departure. That way last minute purchase or change high level elites still have a shot at FC. The US system has hosed me occasionally on last minute flights since they appear to fill FC with Silvers at 24 hours and don't hold back any FC seats. At least US had a good prioritization within elite level system, unlike the moronic time of booking AA uses.

Superguy

Monetizing F in such a way that offers PQMs isn't a bad thing. I'd upfare for $79 for 50% more PQMs - even with US's UDUs.

Just something else that's funny - I bought tickets yesterday that were about $150 cheaper for restricted F than refundable Y. Even though the trip is happening and would be cheaper for my company, I still have to buy the Y ticket. Go figure.

Superguy

I went thru that transition as well as a pmUA flyer, but I had the opposite experience. I fell from 1K to 2P that year and I actually had a pretty good upgrade success rate - even on transcons (not super elite heavy ones though - didn't fly them). I was doing well even out of IAH.

And there's the rub - it wasn't worthless on US. It may be on UA and even to some degree on DL, but it wasn't on US.

cmd320

Perhaps is wasn't worthless on US alone, but the second US actually combines with AA it will be which makes this point irrelevant. Like I've been saying, the companies should have merged at the corporate level but kept operations separate. They were too different to be realistically merged into one.

Speedracer2

US does this as well from what I have been told.

Superguy

Maybe down the road, but not immediately. It's not like all the AA folks are going to start flying on US planes and vice versa. There will be harmonization and route alignment, but it's not like we're going to see seats just disappear into nothing on March 1.

I agree. I think UA and US would have been a better fit back in the day, but unfortunately that got blocked. A lot of the mergers should have been blocked.

Superguy

Only with remaining seats after the elites have been taken care of. I can't speak for DL, but UA actively sells F seats right out from under elites waiting for an upgrade to Kettles on the cheap. See how much people love to talk about TODs in the UA forum.

Speedracer2

Not really very different. If you had said Spirit and Qatar I would agree with you.

LovePrunes

Here's what I don't get about pmUS upgrades, and why pmUS elites are so miffed about stickers:
if there's all these upgrades practically every pmUS elite has been getting for themself AND A COMPANION, from CP down to Silver, what's that tell you about demand for paid first class? There is none. They aren't making money selling first on US compared to AA making money selling first on pmAA. Do you think US should have all those big fancy seats just to give away for free at two per person, you and your companion? No wonder the pmUS first product sucked. I've flown pmUS first and it was the worst first among the big 4 DL UA AA US. And they weren't making money selling first because the product sucked and/or there weren't the number of business travelers to buy it that AA has. So what the hell, might as well give it away since nobody wants it. Not that was at pmAA

So pretend AA chose to go with unlimited upgrades for you AND A COMPANION for every elite. But NOW with the merged airline you pmUS elites are overrun with numbers of pmAA elites in quantities you've never dreamed of. It's not like suddenly there are more first class seats available for everyone. But NOW you have double? triple? MORE than triple? the number of elites, all expecting to get their upgrade for two.

GIVE. ME. A. BREAK.
your upgrade below Exec Plat was never gonna happen in this scenario. Gripe and moan all you want about losing the 4th tier and paying for your upgrades, but the fact is, you'd never have any free uprades in 2015 without being at EP levels.

Now with AA continuing to be able to sell first class to people who are willing to pay for it and generally reserving that to be elites, they can actually keep it a good product or even improve it, instead of just pass around "neverending" milano cookies and ginger ale.

You pmUS elites who don't make Exec plat wouldn't stand a chance to ever get an upgrade, let alone upgrade your companion, if you got what you want once AA flyers are fully mixed, something that hasn't happened yet due to differences in benefits, schedules, etc. btwn the two different airlines.

For those who are going to "quit flying AA after 50k", what's the use of that? Never use the benefit you just earned? That's like meeting your insurance deductible and being sure to defer more surgery till next year. Complete lunacy.

ubernostrum

First, keep in mind that UDUs don't necessarily have to be available to every tier. For example, a four-tier program where the top two (say, 75k EQM/100kEQM) get UDU and bottom two (25k/50k) use stickers would've been perfectly reasonable as a "one from column A, one from column B" merge of the programs. And would've led to probably pretty good upgrade rates for the people getting UDUs, and would've also given the pmUS Platinums much more of a reason to stick with the program and keep putting all their flying in it.

The other thing to remember is that pmUS elites are losing a lot of benefits and really getting nothing to offset that. pmUS Silvers now have to pay for MCE where they didn't have to pay for Preferred seats before. pmUS Platinums lose the guaranteed-seat benefit, and the within-tier Special Dividends privileges, and as I explained earlier quite a few pmUS Platinums just get royally screwed by how the status merge works. And so on and so forth.

And... what are we getting in return? A run-of-the-mill domestic United States experience. Which we already had. The whole "But it's preeeeeeemium!" crap people keep bringing up gets laughed out of the room when you look at an actual premium carrier. The pmAA product, hard and soft, was at best a tiny bit above the average for a domestic legacy North American carrier (and even then, only if you were lucky enough to be able to stay on routes where AA flies planes that date from later than the Jimmy Carter administration). The route network was sketchy domestically and heavily relied on alliance partners internationally (i.e., "what did we gain over being in *A?").

So, honest question: pmUS people lost real benefits in this program announcement. What are we getting to offset that? Because right now it looks like all we get is a fat load of nothing, plus a bunch of pmAA partisans crapping on us for not liking the fact that our program got devalued down to their level for the merge.

Stripe

Not sure who it works better for. It certainly comes at the cost of making the elites mad.

It didn't use to be but US management seems bent on making it more "competitive".

AA almost never fills the last 2 or 3 F seats until just before boarding. In fact, on more and more flights AA has been upgrading no one until 24-36 hours out unless the F cabin is wide open.

Each airline has its own way to prioritize upgrades within elite tier. Each system will favor one group over another. Since I can plan most of my travel well in advance I'd say the AA system is perfect.

cmd320

This isn't relevant as Qatar does not compete domestically. There are quite a few very long threads here which seem to imply that the two airlines were two of the most opposite, including this one.

No one here is arguing that AA offers an experience even close to equivalent to that of CX, SQ, JL, QR, QF, etc. etc. Keep in mind that more premium and premium are two very different things. It's like saying 5 degrees is warmer than 1, but in no way are either warm.

You seem to imply that newer aircraft such as the 738 offer a better experience than older aircraft such as the S80. Can you quantify that with some reasoning other than simply the age of the frame?

Finally, you get to retain your pmUS catering (hopefully only until 11/18 though) as an offset and don't have to endure the horribly non-premium pmAA catering when flying up front. <redacted>

Stripy

Can't say I'm surprised that most US fliers are angry....then again I can't say I care either. Most AA fliers didn't want the merger in the first place so this is the first piece of good news we've had in a long time - I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.

fastflyer

Here's what I liked about pmAA "premium services." (That is what AA officially calls certain employees plus its clubs and domestic F and business and flagship F products):

At the airport
The EXP dedicated phone line
Five Star Service (for sale)
Flagship Checkin (privacy is the truest luxury)
Flagship Lounges and partner F Lounges
Real food available (for sale) at Admirals Clubs
Gratis TSA Precheck (for EXPs -- I didn't ever have to speak to a single TSA -- it just appeared, and it has saved me hours of time)
Very good technology -- web, phone, mobile, app

In the air
Two FAs working domestic F for meal flights
Substantial salad followed by big entree
Courvoisier and ice cream, or sometimes cheese
IFE (on newer equipment)
Widebody hard product in business and flagship F
The new A321 transcons

Was it the most premium in the world? No. But it was premium enough for me. I was willing to pay for it. And I did and do pay for it -- I buy domestic F and international business occasionally on AA. I also buy domestic coach and upgrade. And those upgrades have value, and I would gladly pay the sticker cost as EXP and renounce that benefit at the drop of a hat.

I hope all of my listed items eventually return, and I hope our fellow US elites joining AA will learn to feel that the small pains of this e500 "sticker shock" are more than reasonable in exchange for these premium services.

Superguy

Your ignorance shows. You clearly have no understanding of how UDU works on US.

First of all, the upgrade windows started at a week out for CP. US didn't actually have to release inventory at T-7, and often doesn't. On heavier demand routes, I wouldn't start clearing until T-4 if I was lucky. As a PP before becoming a CP, sometimes I wouldn't even clear at all on CP heavy routes.

Secondly, there has to be sufficient inventory released when it's your spot on the upgrade list if you're traveling with a companion. If there's only one seat available and 2 pax on your PNR guess what happens? You get skipped! You might not even clear with a companion. I know I haven't at times. And at the airport, your companion's on their own. There were times I could have been upgraded if I were willing to split the PNR, but I wasn't making my wife ride in the back.

Thirdly, there are lot of flights I've booked that even a week out, F doesn't have much availability since it actually sold. I usually avoided those flights for a better chance at an upgrade. To say that US F doesn't sell is hogwash and ignorance at its finest.

How about YOU give US a break and cut the condescending attitude? It's an airline and we're all paying customers. It's not a social club that you just happen to be allowing US "riff raff" into.

Speculation with no proof. It also sounds like an assumption that AA capacity would all disappear and there'd be a massive influx of AA elites on US planes. You still have two airlines' combined fleets and schedules. Sure, it'll shrink some with route optimization and consolidation, but it's not like capacity's going to disappear.

And clearly, with the disdain you and your AA compadres have, I'm not worried about upgrades on US metal as you likely wouldn't set foot on it anyway.

I'd rather have Milano cookies than snack mix.

In the meantime, I'll keep searching for this orgasmic F product you AA folks keep crowing about as I have yet to experience it. There isn't that much difference in F between the legacies.

See above.

Not really, but clearly you have difficulty seeing the validity of arguments besides your own. There are people who do that after flying 100K on an airline too. Are they stupid too?

Your argument might make sense if you started at nothing, flew your 50k, and stopped. However, they may fly their 50k, save the perks for next year and enjoy them then as they fly another 50k. That's not lunacy.

Status on a second airline can be beneficial. Not every airline or every partner goes where everyone wants to go, when they want to go. Even if you're flying in an alliance, the partner airline treats its elites better than alliance elites (LH was notorious for this) - especially in IRROPs. If things are bad an an airline at a given point in time (labor strikes, hubs subject to weather, lots of mechanicals), it gives another choice without having to be a Kettle on another airline.