Lost upgrade / upgraded seat shenanigans? [master thread]
Oct 11, 2018, 10:39 pm
#541
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Then 2-10 are EXP's in Y or PE seeking to upgrade to J. They will be ranked by annual EQD - price of ticket doesn't matter.
11-15 are non EXP's in Y or PE seeking to upgrade to J with miles. Not sure how they are ranked.
16-17 are EXP's in J seeking to upgrade to F
18-30 are non-revs seeking whatever they can get
So assuming three open seats in J, 1-3 will clear.
Assuming four open seats in F, 16-19 will clear.
Does that explain why 4-15 are skipped on an international three class?
and ... when you look at the standby list and the upgrade list, keep in mind that most of the people on the bottom of the list are actually non-revs who can get vacant seats in any class after eligible revenue pax are accommodated in that class. In other words, J will often be full on international three class flights and there will be disappointed rev pax who don't have upgrades clear. F, however, is more likely to have an empty seat or two and non-revs will be able to get them if there are no rev pax seeking to upgrade to F.
Oct 12, 2018, 6:11 am
#542
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
Not that it really matters, but I think it's probably more likely that the folks at the bottom of the list were non-rev's cleared directly into F seats; unlikely for revenue upgrades not to have cleared in advance if there were 4 (of 8) empty seats. Unless of course there were 4 no-shows/misconnects.
Oct 12, 2018, 7:29 am
#543
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 314
I think I've seen on here that nonrevs can upgrade from Y to F, so that may account for #21 .
18-30 are non-revs seeking whatever they can get
and ... when you look at the standby list and the upgrade list, keep in mind that most of the people on the bottom of the list are actually non-revs who can get vacant seats in any class after eligible revenue pax are accommodated in that class. In other words, J will often be full on international three class flights and there will be disappointed rev pax who don't have upgrades clear. F, however, is more likely to have an empty seat or two and non-revs will be able to get them if there are no rev pax seeking to upgrade to F.
and ... when you look at the standby list and the upgrade list, keep in mind that most of the people on the bottom of the list are actually non-revs who can get vacant seats in any class after eligible revenue pax are accommodated in that class. In other words, J will often be full on international three class flights and there will be disappointed rev pax who don't have upgrades clear. F, however, is more likely to have an empty seat or two and non-revs will be able to get them if there are no rev pax seeking to upgrade to F.
Not that it really matters, but I think it's probably more likely that the folks at the bottom of the list were non-rev's cleared directly into F seats; unlikely for revenue upgrades not to have cleared in advance if there were 4 (of 8) empty seats. Unless of course there were 4 no-shows/misconnects.
Unlike at UA, nonrevs at AA don't show up on the upgrade list. So while they can upgrade straight from Y to F they wouldn't be on that list in the first place.
Last edited by dfw88; Oct 12, 2018 at 7:34 am
Oct 12, 2018, 8:10 am
#544
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Oct 12, 2018, 8:28 am
#545
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 314
Also, I just checked in Sabre and no nonrev has been given a seat in anything other than coach on the LAX-HKG flight in the last 3 days.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:05 am
#546
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Programs: Hilton Dmd; AA Gld
Posts: 26
SWU and Miles+Copay upgrades are viewed equally. Could be scattered throughout, with rolling EQD's being the controlling factor.
Oct 12, 2018, 12:13 pm
#547
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP - Marriott LT Platinum - National Exec Elite
Posts: 1,112
The confusing thing is there are multiple types of upgrades on this flight (economy to business, business to first, and (potentially) displaced passengers from other flights as well as employee non-revenue tickets), but AA concatenates them all into a single upgrade list. So it can look like upgrades are clearing from random parts of the list, when actually (for instance) you're seeing the top 3 on the Y->J list clear, and the top 2 on the J->F list (starting at position 18 on the combined list), and so on.
Oct 12, 2018, 12:52 pm
#549
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Yes. I nonrev (almost) weekly and I never shown up on the upgrade list, despite the fact that I've flown first and business several times, both domestically and internationally. Now, I've only been in a position to nonrev for about the past 18 months, so it's possible that things were different before I started.
Also, I just checked in Sabre and no nonrev has been given a seat in anything other than coach on the LAX-HKG flight in the last 3 days.
Also, I just checked in Sabre and no nonrev has been given a seat in anything other than coach on the LAX-HKG flight in the last 3 days.
Still not sure what the deal was with +1 ... he was the only one who cleared. He certainly didn't look like someone who was a CK or had higher spend than me but looks can be deceiving ....
Oct 12, 2018, 2:57 pm
#550
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Programs: Hilton Dmd; AA Gld
Posts: 26
Well .... I was on an LAX-JFK redeye recently ... that went from J7 with 10 unassigned seats to J0 and no unassigned seats within 24 hours of departure. I looked forlornly at the upgrade list with my name as #2 with 40 names below me (I have 30k spend so far this year so probably 40k annualized). Suddenly, number 3 went to number 2 and I dropped to number 3. I checked with the Aangels at the AC who said he used a swu and bumped me. I had a 9 AM work meeting and needed to be on my game so I decided to use a SWU and went back to number 2.
Upgrading Priority:
1. Elite Status
2. Upgrade Type: 1)SWU and Miles+Copay 2)500mupg (Complimentary for CK, EP, and PP) on purchased tickets 3)500mupg (complimentary) on award tickets
3. Rolling EQD
4. Booking Code
5. Request Date/Time
Would be very rare to see it get past #3 .
Oct 12, 2018, 3:34 pm
#551
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Yes, it sounds like you were going for a complimentary EXP upgrade. Any EQD level EP using a SWU would go before that. You could have gone to that same AAngel and offered to use 15k miles + $75 copay and you would have still moved back to #2 .
Upgrading Priority:
1. Elite Status
2. Upgrade Type: 1)SWU and Miles+Copay 2)500mupg (Complimentary for CK, EP, and PP) on purchased tickets 3)500mupg (complimentary) on award tickets
3. Rolling EQD
4. Booking Code
5. Request Date/Time
Would be very rare to see it get past #3 .
Upgrading Priority:
1. Elite Status
2. Upgrade Type: 1)SWU and Miles+Copay 2)500mupg (Complimentary for CK, EP, and PP) on purchased tickets 3)500mupg (complimentary) on award tickets
3. Rolling EQD
4. Booking Code
5. Request Date/Time
Would be very rare to see it get past #3 .
For the OP, 500 mupg's don't apply internationally.
Is there a distinction for an EXP on international between a SWU vs mileage and cash upgrade
Oct 12, 2018, 3:57 pm
#552
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The FT AA forum, until it no longer wants me.
Programs: CK or bust
Posts: 1,913
You might mean to say that 500-mile upgrades apply to "the next class of service for travel within North America on eligible American Airlines marketed and operated flights" per AA so they are indeed a valid upgrade instrument to international locations such as Mexico, Guatemala, etc... that fall into what AA defines as North America.
Oct 12, 2018, 4:04 pm
#553
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Programs: Hilton Dmd; AA Gld
Posts: 26
Sure, for the OP, there is a distinction. I apologize, I was speaking in regards to your situation. As to your question here, there isn't a distinction between using either a SWU or Miles&Copay. Same priority.