ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
Jul 12, 2019, 3:43 pm
#1516
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Is there any time limit during which a reimbursement of a flight should be paid?
Article 8(1) provides that re-imbursement of the flight and compensation payments provided for the in the Regulation should be made within seven days by cash, electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services. note this is the official EU site.
Jul 13, 2019, 4:53 pm
#1517
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: PHX
Posts: 19
We were on 3 passengers on LHR - DFW - PHX route on July 11th on single PNR using miles.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
Jul 13, 2019, 10:55 pm
#1518
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick, UK
Programs: UA *G, BA Silver
Posts: 1,673
We were on 3 passengers on LHR - DFW - PHX route on July 11th on single PNR using miles.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
Jul 13, 2019, 11:20 pm
#1519
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
We were on 3 passengers on LHR - DFW - PHX route on July 11th on single PNR using miles.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
LHR - DFW flight was on time.
DFW - PHX flight was originally scheduled for 10:20 PM on July 11th but was delayed till 6:00 next morning. Reason given was no crew.
AA provided vouchers for hotel, taxi and meals.
AA gave each of us 7000 miles for the delay.
Is this covered under EC261?
Thanks.
Jul 14, 2019, 8:13 am
#1520
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 336
Get reason in writing
If you don't already have the reason in writing, I would obtain it in case you need it in the future. On a past claim, I knew the reason was a catering issue, as I was told by crew and AA's insurance verification letter. My claim was initially denied because they changed reasons, stating Air Traffic Control. My letter helped reverse the denial.
Jul 14, 2019, 10:23 am
#1521
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: PHX
Posts: 19
Thank you all for your valuable input. I have submitted my claim to [email protected] and would be waiting for their reply.
Jul 14, 2019, 11:30 am
#1522
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Thank you all for your valuable input. I have submitted my claim to [email protected] and would be waiting for their reply.
As to "weather", a crew delay is not considered act of god. If a plane is there, and the airport is not closed at DFW, then you are entitled to the compensation. OTOH, if you flight got cancelled in DFW because weather closed the airport, or required a diversion on the earlier flight, then probably no compensation.
Bottom line is that EC261 assumes that the airlines plan in enough slack - in extra crew and A/C - to address issues, without impacting passengers. Not crewing a plane at your biggest hub is NOT an "act of god".
Jul 14, 2019, 3:32 pm
#1523
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: PHX
Posts: 19
I will second what others have said, EC261 is a door to door regulation, its the delay from leaving the EU to arrival (as measured by actually opening the door) at your destination, so that it applies. That said, I would expect AA to try to argue against this, but look at the e.g.s given in the EU guidance ( I posted a link to the Irish version, as its in English) and its clear.
As to "weather", a crew delay is not considered act of god. If a plane is there, and the airport is not closed at DFW, then you are entitled to the compensation. OTOH, if you flight got cancelled in DFW because weather closed the airport, or required a diversion on the earlier flight, then probably no compensation.
Bottom line is that EC261 assumes that the airlines plan in enough slack - in extra crew and A/C - to address issues, without impacting passengers. Not crewing a plane at your biggest hub is NOT an "act of god".
As to "weather", a crew delay is not considered act of god. If a plane is there, and the airport is not closed at DFW, then you are entitled to the compensation. OTOH, if you flight got cancelled in DFW because weather closed the airport, or required a diversion on the earlier flight, then probably no compensation.
Bottom line is that EC261 assumes that the airlines plan in enough slack - in extra crew and A/C - to address issues, without impacting passengers. Not crewing a plane at your biggest hub is NOT an "act of god".
Jul 16, 2019, 2:43 pm
#1524
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 282
Two checks received in the mail (same envelope) today despite being told 12-21 days for processing. Very impressive turnaround considering the initial response time.
Jul 17, 2019, 3:10 am
#1525
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Hi,
my flight from Bozeman to San Fransco was delayed due to a techinical issue for 90 minutes causing me to miss my connecting flight to Frankfurt . which then they put me on a different route which resualted in my arrive in Frankfurt 5 hours late than my original booking.
I have emailed United about it then they said the following
I thought EC261 was applicable to any flight originating or final destination is in EU ?
my flight from Bozeman to San Fransco was delayed due to a techinical issue for 90 minutes causing me to miss my connecting flight to Frankfurt . which then they put me on a different route which resualted in my arrive in Frankfurt 5 hours late than my original booking.
I have emailed United about it then they said the following
Please accept my sincere apology for the delay of your recent flight. I understand that the delay was, at best, very frustrating and truly regret you were disappointed in our performance. As United Airlines is a US flagship carrier and not an EU Community carrier, and the delayed flight originated in the United States and not in an EU signatory state, European Regulation EC261/2004 is not applicable. I apologize for any miscommunication about the EU/261.It's always our goal to deliver a comfortable and reliable trip, and we apologize for not meeting these expectations when you had to be rerouted to Lufthansa. We're sending you a $200 electronic travel certificate that will arrive via email within the next five business days. It can be used on any United or United Express flight.
I thought EC261 was applicable to any flight originating or final destination is in EU ?
Jul 17, 2019, 3:23 am
#1526
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Nope - the domestic US flight is not covered
For a US airline, there is only coverage under EC261 when departing from Europe - if a missed connection or similar occurs in US, then will still be covered
For an EU airline, there is cover for flights to or from the USA
For a domestic US connecting flight to a flight to Europe, there is no cover regardless
For a US airline, there is only coverage under EC261 when departing from Europe - if a missed connection or similar occurs in US, then will still be covered
For an EU airline, there is cover for flights to or from the USA
For a domestic US connecting flight to a flight to Europe, there is no cover regardless
Jul 17, 2019, 8:16 am
#1527
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Hi,
my flight from Bozeman to San Fransco was delayed due to a techinical issue for 90 minutes causing me to miss my connecting flight to Frankfurt . which then they put me on a different route which resualted in my arrive in Frankfurt 5 hours late than my original booking.
I have emailed United about it then they said the following
I thought EC261 was applicable to any flight originating or final destination is in EU ?
my flight from Bozeman to San Fransco was delayed due to a techinical issue for 90 minutes causing me to miss my connecting flight to Frankfurt . which then they put me on a different route which resualted in my arrive in Frankfurt 5 hours late than my original booking.
I have emailed United about it then they said the following
Please accept my sincere apology for the delay of your recent flight. I understand that the delay was, at best, very frustrating and truly regret you were disappointed in our performance. As United Airlines is a US flagship carrier and not an EU Community carrier, and the delayed flight originated in the United States and not in an EU signatory state, European Regulation EC261/2004 is not applicable. I apologize for any miscommunication about the EU/261.It's always our goal to deliver a comfortable and reliable trip, and we apologize for not meeting these expectations when you had to be rerouted to Lufthansa. We're sending you a $200 electronic travel certificate that will arrive via email within the next five business days. It can be used on any United or United Express flight.
I thought EC261 was applicable to any flight originating or final destination is in EU ?
You case with UA is clearly not covered. Interestingly, having just had anEC261 issue, I am rethinking my purchasing decissions. I was already down on intra-US connections (since US customers is a big mess) and preferred to change planes in the EU, but absent a major difference in price, I will stick to EU carriers all things being relatively equal.
Jul 26, 2019, 7:47 am
#1528
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: HHonors Diamond, IHG Plat, Club Carlson Gold, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 316
My 2:35 pm award flight from LHR-PHL was downgraded due to the business cabin being oversold. The entire itinerary was CDG-LHR-PHL-ATL where CDG-LHR was BA and everything else on AA metal. I found out about the downgrade at the gate right before boarding. The gate agent offered to rebook all of us (party of four all in business but only I was downgraded, yay!) on 4 pm nonstop to ATL on BA in business but this meant we had to go back to T5 from T3 and hope to make the flight. So I begrudgingly took the downgrade to coach, especially since everyone else had their business reservations intact. The gate agent gave me a $600 transportation voucher for AA. The gate agent also told me to contact AA customer service for further compensation and partial return of mileage difference.
Now that I'm home, I have some questions:
1. The $600 travel voucher (transportation voucher exchange coupon), is this for EU 261/2004 compensation? If so, I thought the compensation is €600, not $600? And is the compensation supposed to be cash or travel voucher? The voucher is not valid on AA.com, only at the ticket office or by phone. I asked the gate agent whether cash was available and he said no.
2. How much mileage difference should be credited back to me? I booked using a business mileage saver award.
3. Anything else I'm missing?
Now that I'm home, I have some questions:
1. The $600 travel voucher (transportation voucher exchange coupon), is this for EU 261/2004 compensation? If so, I thought the compensation is €600, not $600? And is the compensation supposed to be cash or travel voucher? The voucher is not valid on AA.com, only at the ticket office or by phone. I asked the gate agent whether cash was available and he said no.
2. How much mileage difference should be credited back to me? I booked using a business mileage saver award.
3. Anything else I'm missing?
On the downgrade you are entitled to reimbursement of 75% of the miles paid for the downgraded sector. NOTE this is different from the miles difference between the two cabins so be clear what you are asking AA for so write something like 'as per EU261 reimbursement of 75% of the miles for sector ..."
Note EU261 is very clear there is no statutory compensation for downgrade but a reimbursement.
I'd day the $600 was a gesture from AA for the inconvenience rather than compensation (see above)
Under EU261 an airline can offer you when it is for compensation a voucher rather than cash (and if they do it's often for more on the basis you forget to use it) but you choose which to take. For goodwill it can offer you what it likes and how it wants to pay you.
€600 would be the compensation due for a long delay - were you delayed when comparing your original route time of arrival and your revised route and if so by how much? As that could lead to additional compensation. But they would pay you this after you made a claim not in advance at the gate.
Note EU261 is very clear there is no statutory compensation for downgrade but a reimbursement.
I'd day the $600 was a gesture from AA for the inconvenience rather than compensation (see above)
Under EU261 an airline can offer you when it is for compensation a voucher rather than cash (and if they do it's often for more on the basis you forget to use it) but you choose which to take. For goodwill it can offer you what it likes and how it wants to pay you.
€600 would be the compensation due for a long delay - were you delayed when comparing your original route time of arrival and your revised route and if so by how much? As that could lead to additional compensation. But they would pay you this after you made a claim not in advance at the gate.
Total distance - 4,427 miles for CDG-LHR-PHL-ATL
LHR-PHL = 3,545 miles
Miles used 57,500
57500 * 3545/4427 * .75 = 32584
You are also entitled to 75% of non tax cash items
Were you downgraded to Premium Economy or Economy ? if downgraded to economy, you are also due a reimbursement of the difference between standard and reduced rate APD of £78
LHR-PHL = 3,545 miles
Miles used 57,500
57500 * 3545/4427 * .75 = 32584
You are also entitled to 75% of non tax cash items
Were you downgraded to Premium Economy or Economy ? if downgraded to economy, you are also due a reimbursement of the difference between standard and reduced rate APD of £78
Original Award: 57,500
Equivalent Main Cabin Award: 30,000
Difference in Awards: 27,500
Total Trip Mileage CDG-LHR-PHL-ATL: 4,427
Downgraded Mileage LHR-PHL: 3,546 (80%)
Calculation: 3,546/4,427*27,500 = 22027
Is AA trying to short change me and hoping I'll just take the lower mileage and go away? If so, they are very unscrupulous in how they conduct business
I will, of course, escalate if this is the case.ETA: Just emailed AA requesting additional miles reimbursement of 12516. I'll update once I hear back.
Last edited by Namaste1; Jul 26, 2019 at 4:55 pm
Jul 26, 2019, 1:01 pm
#1529
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2
I'm at 6 weeks since automated reply, any advice beyond contacting company that will file for me?
Jul 26, 2019, 1:52 pm
#1530
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Your claim sounded odd and that may be delaying it. Your sole claim is for delay at your final ticketed destination. How many delays there are along the way is irrelevant. Thus, if you were delayed on segment #1 and thus misconnected, but segment #2 was delayed as well, you still only have one claim. Your post suggested that you may have claimed for both.
That may have turned a simple claim into something sent off for research which will take months.