ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
Jul 3, 2019, 7:32 pm
#1471
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, UA *S, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Exp, IHG Plat, National EE, Sixt Plat
Posts: 648
Looks like I have a similar situation as this, just not as bad of a delay getting to final destination. Was supposed to fly DUB-ORD-PHL yesterday. No issues with DUB-ORD, but ORD-PHL cancelled for mechanical while DUB-ORD was already in the air. Got automatically rebooked ORD-BNA-PHL ultimately arriving to the gate about 2.5 hours late.
What is the amount I'm actually be due under EC261 in this case? The overall delay was under 4 hours for a 'long' flight, but because a cancellation was involved it seems to be 50% of €600, so €300. Am I understanding that correctly?
I of course expect AA to push back on this one, but I plan to use the same logic as this example. Is it easier to go through the twitter team or email [email protected]?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
What is the amount I'm actually be due under EC261 in this case? The overall delay was under 4 hours for a 'long' flight, but because a cancellation was involved it seems to be 50% of €600, so €300. Am I understanding that correctly?
I of course expect AA to push back on this one, but I plan to use the same logic as this example. Is it easier to go through the twitter team or email [email protected]?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
This is correct. The actual regulation has no reference but case law has decreed the a delay of three hour or more is to be treated as a cancellation, but that is not relevant here. If compensation here is to be treated in relation to the cancellation then as per above, three hours is irrelevant.
Here is the regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...4R0261:en:HTML
In @sjpmurph01's situation for cancellation, in relation to compensation, only the specific clauses in Article 5: 1(a), Article 5: 1(b), Article 5: 1(c)(iii) & Article 7 are relevant.
Article 6 (Delay) clauses have no bearing in the case of Cancellation as they only relate to "a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure". That is not what happened.
Here is the regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...4R0261:en:HTML
In @sjpmurph01's situation for cancellation, in relation to compensation, only the specific clauses in Article 5: 1(a), Article 5: 1(b), Article 5: 1(c)(iii) & Article 7 are relevant.
Article 6 (Delay) clauses have no bearing in the case of Cancellation as they only relate to "a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure". That is not what happened.
You're not alone in the backlog. I had a cancellation that should qualify for EC261 compensation on May 22. I sent an email to the AA EC email address on May 24 which got an auto response saying "Please be aware that we are experiencing heavy email volume driven by the Summer travel season. As such, you may experience longer than normal response times to your claim filed for compensation under European Regulation EC 261/2004. We are handling and responding to these claims as quickly as possible. In the meantime, we appreciate your patience and understanding."
On June 21 I reached out to the Twitter team to ask for a response. The replied within a few minutes to say they'll look into it, and then responded the next day with the following, "We see your email to our specialists in Customer Relations. Due to European Union Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004 the investigation of your flight and response to your email may take a bit longer than we would like. Our agents will contact you ASAP."
ASAP = As Soon as American Pleases?
On June 21 I reached out to the Twitter team to ask for a response. The replied within a few minutes to say they'll look into it, and then responded the next day with the following, "We see your email to our specialists in Customer Relations. Due to European Union Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004 the investigation of your flight and response to your email may take a bit longer than we would like. Our agents will contact you ASAP."
ASAP = As Soon as American Pleases?
As expected, they are denying that EC261 compensation is due. Interestingly though, their response did not cite the fact that the canceled flight was a domestic US flight (on an itin originating from the EU) as the reason for denying the claim. They specifically said that the fact the arrival at final destination < 3 hours late was the reason. So they seem to have passively acknowledged that the situation as a whole would be covered, just that the length of time between original scheduled arrival and actual arrival was not great enough. They threw 7500 miles at me for the inconvenience.
Only problem is, like some others on this thread, they're confusing the details between a delayed flight and a cancelled flight and re-booking that causes a later than planned arrival.
I politely but firmly replied back, specifically quoting Article 5: 1(c)(iii), which defines the threshold in this scenario as 2 hours, not 3. Will share any additional progress back here once I hear back again in the next few months.
Thanks again for the knowledge shared here to help me make my case.
Jul 4, 2019, 2:53 am
#1472
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,598
Based on it trying to just use the timing as a reason, hopefully it will easily be resolved
Jul 7, 2019, 2:44 am
#1473
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: DFW
Programs: AA - PLT Marriott: Silver
Posts: 34
AA and EC621
Question for you experts. Have friends that were booked on MAD-MIA-BNA today, the inbound from JFK was delayed due to crew problems (per Expertflyer) by 2 hours, causing them to have two options: either misconnect in MIA (they will miss their connecting flight and no other seats open to BNA today), or take a one day delay and fly tomorrow MAD-LHR-BNA In BA, delaying them well beyond the 4 hour threshold for a type 3 flight. My question is if they will be eligible to file an EC261 claim with AA (by my calculation should be €600 each)? Thanks.
Jul 7, 2019, 3:15 am
#1474
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,598
Would seem to be entitled to the EUR600 - plus of course reimbursement for hotel, meals, incidentals and transport to/from hotels
There is a thread dedicated to EC261 questions
Are there no other routes to get to BNA today?
There is a thread dedicated to EC261 questions
Are there no other routes to get to BNA today?
Jul 7, 2019, 5:57 am
#1475
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 138
Delay Compensation EU Claim Question CDG-DFW-SFO
Greetings,
I have done a bit of searching and am struggling to find someone pertaining to this specific situation.
I am flying today from CDG-DFW on flight IB4946 (AA codeshare). The flight has been delayed arriving 8:20pm. My DFW-SFO AA1535 leaves 8:49pm so we knew that we would not have made that flight. At the airport, we accepted a rerouting with United going DFW-IAH-SFO (UA6215 and UA404) which leaves the next morning at 5:35am arriving 9:35am. I am unsure whether I can claim any compensation since this rerouting is in the US and we volunteered to accept this itinerary change.
The ticket was originally booked as one ticket CDG-DFW-SFO on one record locator.
I have done a bit of searching and am struggling to find someone pertaining to this specific situation.
I am flying today from CDG-DFW on flight IB4946 (AA codeshare). The flight has been delayed arriving 8:20pm. My DFW-SFO AA1535 leaves 8:49pm so we knew that we would not have made that flight. At the airport, we accepted a rerouting with United going DFW-IAH-SFO (UA6215 and UA404) which leaves the next morning at 5:35am arriving 9:35am. I am unsure whether I can claim any compensation since this rerouting is in the US and we volunteered to accept this itinerary change.
The ticket was originally booked as one ticket CDG-DFW-SFO on one record locator.
Jul 7, 2019, 6:28 am
#1476
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,598
Subject to reason for dely not being one that falls in the exception category, then you are entitled to EUR600 each
The airline did not offer you a routing that would have allowed you to have got to destination no more than 2 hours delayed -> compensation due
The airline did not offer you a routing that would have allowed you to have got to destination no more than 2 hours delayed -> compensation due
Jul 7, 2019, 7:06 am
#1477
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 5,538
Knowing why there is a delay would be a big help. A clue might be in the arriving flight (AA22) which was delayed by crew availability.
From Expert Flyer:
☨DTE CHNG FLT☨ ORIG 6JUL
DFW 830P D D27
CDG ☨ 1245P
3DFW/ETD2245 CRA-DELAY DUE TO CREW AVAILABILITY *2046
7DFW/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P2AA0022DFW06JUL *2135*CRCYMG
4DFW/OUT2241 OFF2300 *2300
2CDG/ETA1450 *0736
That may or may not help. More info on your departing flight after it leaves.
Accepting rerouting in the US will not affect your ability to collect. I successfully fought just such a case in April - with AA.
From Expert Flyer:
☨DTE CHNG FLT☨ ORIG 6JUL
DFW 830P D D27
CDG ☨ 1245P
3DFW/ETD2245 CRA-DELAY DUE TO CREW AVAILABILITY *2046
7DFW/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P2AA0022DFW06JUL *2135*CRCYMG
4DFW/OUT2241 OFF2300 *2300
2CDG/ETA1450 *0736
That may or may not help. More info on your departing flight after it leaves.
Accepting rerouting in the US will not affect your ability to collect. I successfully fought just such a case in April - with AA.
Jul 7, 2019, 9:38 pm
#1478
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 138
Here is the following updated flight status after the CDG-DFW flight:
Comments:
CDG 325P A49
DFW D6 D D27 700P
3CDG/ETD1645 LAT-LATE ARRV A/C DUE TO PRIOR AIR TRAFFIC DELAYS *2112
7CDG/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P1AA0023CDG07JUL *2159*CRCYMG
4CDG/OUT1627 OFF1653 *0953
2DFW/IN2000 *2000
Does this air traffic delay count as an exception to the claim?
Comments:
CDG 325P A49
DFW D6 D D27 700P
3CDG/ETD1645 LAT-LATE ARRV A/C DUE TO PRIOR AIR TRAFFIC DELAYS *2112
7CDG/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P1AA0023CDG07JUL *2159*CRCYMG
4CDG/OUT1627 OFF1653 *0953
2DFW/IN2000 *2000
Does this air traffic delay count as an exception to the claim?
Jul 7, 2019, 9:50 pm
#1479
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,247
Here is the following updated flight status after the CDG-DFW flight:
Comments:
CDG 325P A49
DFW D6 D D27 700P
3CDG/ETD1645 LAT-LATE ARRV A/C DUE TO PRIOR AIR TRAFFIC DELAYS *2112
7CDG/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P1AA0023CDG07JUL *2159*CRCYMG
4CDG/OUT1627 OFF1653 *0953
2DFW/IN2000 *2000
Does this air traffic delay count as an exception to the claim?
Comments:
CDG 325P A49
DFW D6 D D27 700P
3CDG/ETD1645 LAT-LATE ARRV A/C DUE TO PRIOR AIR TRAFFIC DELAYS *2112
7CDG/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P1AA0023CDG07JUL *2159*CRCYMG
4CDG/OUT1627 OFF1653 *0953
2DFW/IN2000 *2000
Does this air traffic delay count as an exception to the claim?
Jul 8, 2019, 8:46 am
#1481
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 282
Finally received a response from AA customer relations today (coincidence?)
As expected, they are denying that EC261 compensation is due. Interestingly though, their response did not cite the fact that the canceled flight was a domestic US flight (on an itin originating from the EU) as the reason for denying the claim. They specifically said that the fact the arrival at final destination < 3 hours late was the reason. So they seem to have passively acknowledged that the situation as a whole would be covered, just that the length of time between original scheduled arrival and actual arrival was not great enough. They threw 7500 miles at me for the inconvenience.
Only problem is, like some others on this thread, they're confusing the details between a delayed flight and a cancelled flight and re-booking that causes a later than planned arrival.
I politely but firmly replied back, specifically quoting Article 5: 1(c)(iii), which defines the threshold in this scenario as 2 hours, not 3. Will share any additional progress back here once I hear back again in the next few months.
Thanks again for the knowledge shared here to help me make my case.
As expected, they are denying that EC261 compensation is due. Interestingly though, their response did not cite the fact that the canceled flight was a domestic US flight (on an itin originating from the EU) as the reason for denying the claim. They specifically said that the fact the arrival at final destination < 3 hours late was the reason. So they seem to have passively acknowledged that the situation as a whole would be covered, just that the length of time between original scheduled arrival and actual arrival was not great enough. They threw 7500 miles at me for the inconvenience.
Only problem is, like some others on this thread, they're confusing the details between a delayed flight and a cancelled flight and re-booking that causes a later than planned arrival.
I politely but firmly replied back, specifically quoting Article 5: 1(c)(iii), which defines the threshold in this scenario as 2 hours, not 3. Will share any additional progress back here once I hear back again in the next few months.
Thanks again for the knowledge shared here to help me make my case.
Jul 8, 2019, 3:39 pm
#1482
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: DFW
Programs: AA - PLT Marriott: Silver
Posts: 34
Have a friend who is flying (MXP-MIA-XXX in the US) on AAdvantage points. MXP-MIA got diverted to PBI due to MIA weather, and now that friend is delayed 24+ hours in getting to final destination. Has anyone before received EC261 on a flight booked with points before? Any tips?
Jul 8, 2019, 3:45 pm
#1483
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,248
Have a friend who is flying (MXP-MIA-XXX in the US) on AAdvantage points. MXP-MIA got diverted to PBI due to MIA weather, and now that friend is delayed 24+ hours in getting to final destination. Has anyone before received EC261 on a flight booked with points before? Any tips?
Jul 8, 2019, 3:52 pm
#1484
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: DFW
Programs: AA - PLT Marriott: Silver
Posts: 34
It was weather related, but crew time out on the ground at PBI, does that change anything? Does weather fall under "extraordinary circumstances" not in scope for EC261. I was under the impression that only things like volcanic ash events, and the like were considered extraordinary.
Jul 8, 2019, 3:54 pm
#1485
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,196
Have a friend who is flying (MXP-MIA-XXX in the US) on AAdvantage points. MXP-MIA got diverted to PBI due to MIA weather, and now that friend is delayed 24+ hours in getting to final destination. Has anyone before received EC261 on a flight booked with points before? Any tips?
However AA should be providing 'duty of care' so a hotel / meals etc as duty of care applies even in weather delays