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GUIDE: EC or UK261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

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Old Jan 29, 2015, 7:08 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Prospero
Introduction
If you experience a flight delay or are denied boarding, or experience a flight cancellation you may be entitled to compensation or if downgraded a partial refund on the fare when your AA operated flight departs from the European Union, Norway, Switzerland, or the United Kingdom.

Summary
On 17 February 2005, the European Union implemented Regulation 261/2004 (hereafter known as EC/261), designed to give protection to air passengers for delays, cancellations, downgrades and cases of denied boarding throughout the European Union, and also to flights operated by European Union airlines. All flights, from all airlines including American Airlines leaving the European Union, Norway, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom are covered.

Airlines are obliged to inform passengers about their rights at check-in, and to provide more detailed information upon request. The burden of proof for most of the regulations lies with the airline, so it is up to them to prove they informed you of cancelled services or that the cause of the delay was "extraordinary circumstances".

Scope of EC/261 and the equivalent UK legislation
These regulations cover the following areas
  • Denied boarding (you turn up at the airport on time but are not allowed on to your booked service)
  • Downgrades (flying at a lower class than booked)
  • Delays (when you arrive late at your destination)
  • Cancellations (when AA cancels your service altogether)
For the purposes of the regulations, you need to have a confirmed reservation, accepted and registered by the airline, and presented yourself for check-in before the deadline.

Categories of flights
First thing to understand is which category does your flight fall under? This determines the level of compensation payable. For AA operated flights from Europe to the United States, this will be category 3 (3,501 km and higher)

Denied boarding
If the flight is overbooked, AA is supposed to ask for volunteers, i.e. passenger who are prepared to travel on another flight in return for compensation. This level of compensation is open to AA to define.

If involuntary denied boarding is necessary then the compensation is as outlined below. This provision also applies for those wrongly denied boarding for reasons other than overbooking. For example if an airline refuses travel because they had wrongly assumed the passenger did not possess the correct travel document or entry clearance. Note that just because some other website suggests that the flight looks overbooked does not mean that AA will be denying boarding or downgrading.

Downgrades
If AA downgrades your class of travel you are entitled to a refund on your ticket. This is 75% of the affected segments of that ticket.

Delays and cancellations
Cancellations and delays against your final arrival time entitle you to a duty of care, and in many cases compensation. This area has recently been clarified in appeal judgements. To simplify a complex area, delays greater than 4 hours on AA flights from Europe to the United States can result in compensation of 600 per person, or 520 per person on flights from the United Kingdom, if AA was responsible for that delay.

Duty of care
AA should offer a duty of care to passengers facing travel disruption in all situations where you hold a confirmed reservation and the flight departs from Europe. The regulations specifically include food, drink, hotel accommodation if any overnight delay, and communications. If you have access to a lounge then it is unlikely to be reasonable to ask for additional food and drink vouchers, unless the lounge facilities have only a restricted range of refreshments.

Changes to existing bookings
If you are given more than 14 days notice of a change then you are not entitled to compensation for the delay. You are entitled to a refund or a rebooked service, it's your decision.

How much do I get?
This section applies for delays, cancellations and denied boarding. Below gives the standard amount of compensation payable if you are delayed by more than the number of hours shown. Note that an airline is able to invoke "extraordinary circumstances" as a reason for not paying compensation for delays and cancellations, but not for denied boarding or downgrades.

For delays (not cancellations)
To be clear: a flat delay, without rerouting and/or cancellation, needs at least 3 hours late against the advertised arrival time, and doors opened ready for passengers to leave. So probably for most passengers, where they find themselves waiting at an airport, or waiting for take off, for a long period - it's only the arrival time / door open that matters and if must be at least 3 hours for eligibility for any compensation applies. For AA transatlantic (over 3,500 km) then you will get full compensation after a 4 hour delay, and a reduced 50% rate for delays between 3 and 4 hours. This is purely for delays, and it is calculated on arrival time, not all the hanging around at departure.

A Reduced Amount (50% reduction) applies if AA re-routes you on another service that gets you to your destination, see the next section on cancellations. If you are NOT rerouted, just delayed, AND your delay is below three hours, you are not eligible for compensation the regulations.

There is often confusion in this area and part of the reason for this is that there is nothing written in the Regulations about paying compensation for delays. The law has changed as a result of judicial rulings that have related delays to the Regulation's wording on cancellations.

For cancellations
For cancellations and/or when you are rerouted on to another service, some shorter delays attract a half rate payment. If the reroute involves departing less than an hour early, AND arriving less than 2 hours late at the original destination airport, there is no compensation, no matter what (Regulation 5.1.c.iii).

Which delays not entitled to compensation?
Weather delays, strikes, Airport Traffic Control problems. Basically any item outside American Airlines' direct control. Plus all delays 3 or 4 hours, unless AA re-routes you. The appeal rulings certainly gives protection from 3 hours, but since the original Regulations did not clearly specify delay compensation there is a potential gap here.

What about technical failures causing delays?
Broadly speaking airlines cannot use technical failure to avoid their responsibilities in this area, and therefore compensation is payable. However it is possible for some technical failure to be considered extraordinary circumstances

What about knock-on effects?
This relates to disruption caused by aircraft being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, leading to you being disrupted. For example if you are due to fly from London to New York but your aircraft is still stuck in Boston due to a blizzard. In that situation you should be entitled to compensation.

My flight was outside Europe, am I still covered?
As far as AA flights are concerned, these regulations apply only to flights departing the EU, the European Economic Area (Norway, Iceland. Liechtenstein). plus Switzerland and the United Kingdom. AA flights departing from the United States to Europe are not covered

Are Award bookings covered?
Yes.

Contacting AA
You need to contact the operating airline as only it is responsible for providing compensation to affected passengers. The AA email address for EC 261 claims is [email protected]

Useful links
The 2024 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf
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GUIDE: EC or UK261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

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Old May 24, 2023, 9:20 am
  #76  
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Join Date: Jan 2002
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Originally Posted by kmandrew
Original flight was BA 623 at 10:25, AA emailed me with the change to BA 642 at 3:30
I called AA saying this forces us to an overnight in London, they said the 3:30 or 6:30 pm from ATH were our only options
CSR was very nice said we could choose any AA flight on April19 to get home
We aren’t that upset about the one day delay, just don’t understand why BA or AA wouldn’t pay for the hotel?
Given that the overnight stay was mandatory, then the airline whose flight was impacted ( which I infer was BA ) is liable for the hotel, meals and incidentals - I understand why AA would refuse where BA is liable

Push back on BA on the ridiculous suggestion that this is a consequential loss
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Old May 31, 2023, 8:54 am
  #77  
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
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AA Delay Claim

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...102Z/KMIA/EGLL

I posted in another forum and was told delay doesn't result in EU261 compensation on AA light to LHR from USA. Any thoughts from this forum? This is probably more appropriate place to post.

Originally Posted by SoFlaFlyer737

QUESTION:

This flight was scheduled to leave at at 8:50 PM and due to "maintenance" issues, the flight left after AM on May 24. Ultimately, the flight arrived at LHR at 2:20 PM on May 24, instead of scheduled time of 10:40 AM. I'm unsure exactly what time the plane's door was closed.

Announcements were sparse and the AA app wasn't very helpful. The departure time changed several times.

I understand UK is still part of the EU 261 rule.

I missed my train to York and was forced to take a later train, for which I wasn't charged extra,

What does AA owe me. I've seen where arrivals are more than 3 hours late, it could be several hundred dollars. Is this provided by voucher or cash? What response can I expect from AA> I have 75K (Emerald) with AK, not with AA.

My return flight was fine and uneventful. Any thoughts from FT?

RESPONSE:

If this was a simple MIA-LHR booking made under the AA flight number then I'm afraid EU/UK261 doesn't apply. For flights departing outside the UK/EU, these regulations generally only apply if the flight is operated by a UK/EU airline - hence it's always better to fly with a UK/EU airline when heading east over the Atlantic. Bizarrely, they do apply to foreign airlines if the flight departs the UK/EU. Totally illogical and inconsistent but there you go.

AA may offer you something as a gesture of goodwill but I don't think you are legally entitled to anything here.
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Old May 31, 2023, 9:06 am
  #78  
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Correct. EC/UK 261 does not apply to AA flights TO the EU/UK. Only on AA flights FROM the EU/UK.

If you write in you may get a customer service gesture of a small voucher or some miles, due to the maintenance delay. But there's no legally required compensation.
stifle and DiamondMile like this.
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Old Jun 17, 2023, 1:20 pm
  #79  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 483
I know this will be a claim against Iberia, though this is on an AA issued partner award, DFW-MAD. Involuntary downgrade from business class. Is there any standard for determining the cash value of an AA award ticket? I presume this would be 75% of the cost for purchasing the miles directly from AA plus 75% of the carrier imposed surcharges. Also, is an EC261 claim mutually exclusive from a DOT claim?
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Old Jun 17, 2023, 2:35 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by AndyAA
I know this will be a claim against Iberia, though this is on an AA issued partner award, DFW-MAD. Involuntary downgrade from business class. Is there any standard for determining the cash value of an AA award ticket? I presume this would be 75% of the cost for purchasing the miles directly from AA plus 75% of the carrier imposed surcharges. Also, is an EC261 claim mutually exclusive from a DOT claim?
The cost to replace 75% of the miles plus 75% of carrier fees, seems appropriate to claim

What are you trying to claim from DOT?
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Old Jun 17, 2023, 4:13 pm
  #81  
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Originally Posted by AndyAA
Also, is an EC261 claim mutually exclusive from a DOT claim?
You can claim under EU261 or DOT rules for the downgrade, whichever is more beneficial to you, but you cannot double-dip.
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Old Jul 27, 2023, 10:15 am
  #82  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Confirming the operating carrier

so AA ticket - flight originates in Italy (on BA) to Heathrow - the Heathrow leg to US on AA cancels and rebooks for next day - confirming this is an EC/UK 261 claim on AA for the cancellation

anybody have luck with the email shared in this thread (aa.ecclaims)? calls required? my experience with EU carriers when doing this was all online... AA not so much...

Thanks
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Old Jul 27, 2023, 10:26 am
  #83  
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
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AA flights Cancelled

Originally Posted by tdo-ca
so AA ticket - flight originates in Italy (on BA) to Heathrow - the Heathrow leg to US on AA cancels and rebooks for next day - confirming this is an EC/UK 261 claim on AA for the cancellation

anybody have luck with the email shared in this thread (aa.ecclaims)? calls required? my experience with EU carriers when doing this was all online... AA not so much...

Thanks
I had a flight delayed 5 hours from MIA to LHR, 261 didn't apply...I think a flight originating in Europe should apply...I have never had a 261 claim...Being on BA, rather than AA, might be helpful.

Last edited by SoFlaFlyer737; Jul 27, 2023 at 10:37 am
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Old Jul 27, 2023, 10:35 am
  #84  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by SoFlaFlyer737
Being on BAm, rather than AA, might be helpful.
This particular situation is AA operated (and rebooked onto AA flight following day) - BA did not cause a misconnect or cancel

I did an EC261 claim previously, where FinnAir delay caused a misconnect in HEL, and that was a quick turnaround as soon as the paperwork was in
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Old Jul 27, 2023, 11:26 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by tdo-ca
so AA ticket - flight originates in Italy (on BA) to Heathrow - the Heathrow leg to US on AA cancels and rebooks for next day - confirming this is an EC/UK 261 claim on AA for the cancellation

anybody have luck with the email shared in this thread (aa.ecclaims)? calls required? my experience with EU carriers when doing this was all online... AA not so much...

Thanks
Yes, you have a UK261 claim against AA for 520. Good luck.
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Old Aug 11, 2023, 7:43 pm
  #86  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA; Kerry Ireland
Programs: AA EXP 1mm; DL Plt; Marriott Gold; Hyatt something or other; Hilton Gold
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So far all I received before today were robo-emails "we are working on it." Then today a form email - we're sorry the experience wasn't great and will report your concerns to higher ups and give you a few miles for your grief (15K). Rather appalling. They have not replied to the 261 claim and have ignored the repayment for hotels they told us to book. We'll see how far it has to escalate.
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Old Aug 31, 2023, 4:55 pm
  #87  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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In the BA forum, the information on EU/UK261 suggests that an onward flight with AA from a US airport to another US airport would not qualify - wanted to understand the general wisdom / understanding here as well?

Specifcially, AA ticket (001 plated) DUB LHR MIA MSY. DUB LHR MIA flights on BA metal and all on time. MIA MSY flight pushes back on time (despite weather issues), we are on the runway but then leave the runway due to the radar not working. Wait 45 mins for a gate. Engineers can’t fix so aircraft swap. The delay will be over 3 hours.

as said, I had assumed that it’s an ‘EU - US’ ticket that gets me there over 3 hours late, therefore would be covered by EU/UK261 regs but the BAEC forum suggests that given the flight is AA operated MIA MSY, it wouldn’t apply. What’s your experience / understanding? Thank you!
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Old Sep 3, 2023, 2:20 pm
  #88  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA; Kerry Ireland
Programs: AA EXP 1mm; DL Plt; Marriott Gold; Hyatt something or other; Hilton Gold
Posts: 761
Courts in EU ruled on this in 2022 - yes connecting flights on same itinerary qualify -

https://curia.europa.eu/juris/docume...=1&cid=5603798
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Old Sep 3, 2023, 2:22 pm
  #89  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA; Kerry Ireland
Programs: AA EXP 1mm; DL Plt; Marriott Gold; Hyatt something or other; Hilton Gold
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by tdo-ca
So far all I received before today were robo-emails "we are working on it." Then today a form email - we're sorry the experience wasn't great and will report your concerns to higher ups and give you a few miles for your grief (15K). Rather appalling. They have not replied to the 261 claim and have ignored the repayment for hotels they told us to book. We'll see how far it has to escalate.
Finally received acknowledgement 261 applies to flight. Additional paperwork requested to relieve carrier of additional liability. Sent. Couple more weeks have passed...
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Old Oct 28, 2023, 8:11 pm
  #90  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 19
AA and EU/UK 261

Just wondering if anybody have experience of making an EU261/UK261 claim with American?

My flight from LHR-ORD (part of a DUB-LHR-ORD-DSM trip) on 21st September was eventually cancelled due to a mechanical issue and I was rerouted via DFW the following day arriving 21 hours later than scheduled. I am pretty sure that his in scope for EU261/UK261 compensation.

Was looked after pretty well on the day with hotel booked. I had to pay for taxis there and back but was told they would be paid for if I sent in receipts. I did this as well as enquiring about the EU compensation. Its been 5 weeks now since submitting the claim and have received 2 E mails saying there are de;ays in responding to correspondence etc. so have had nothing substantive back.

I am just wondering how long this type of issue takes to generate a response. I know that I will be asked to send in the taxi receipts byt the form didnt allow me to do this so I am waiting for a physical response to advance this.

I am wondering if there is any way I canmove things along maybe calling a specific number as I have found AA on the phone pretty good before? Normally I know that after 8 weeks you are entitled to make a claim via court in UK. I dont even know if I would be eligible for this as the overall trip started in Dublin although the relevant flight was UK-USA. I am pretty sure it will be a straightforward claim and really just want to know where I stand.

Just hoping if anybody has made a similar claim they might advise me what to expect.

Thanks
Clon75 is offline  


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